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Re: Apple Reorganizes Open Source Web Presence

On Friday, May 3, 2002, at 06:07 PM, Ben Hines wrote:

I hope that this - http://www.opensource.apple.com/projects/bugs.html - is not the new bug reporter you were talking about.

1. The bugzilla interface is *AWFUL*. Always has been. Just about anything is better.
That ---> http://opendarwin.org/bugzilla/query.cgi is the most confusing GUI i've ever seen. Ever. Where do you start with that?

Yes, there are trade-offs. The good thing is that anyone can register and log bugs. This was not possible with the previous system, so it's a significant step forward in that direction. We felt that the ability to create and update bugs was much more important than the actual interface.

Bugzilla is open source, and can be modified by people who wish to work on that project and fine-tune it for OpenDarwin.org. Also, since OpenDarwin.org is a community-owned server, it's entirely possible for people who are motivated to put in an entirely different bug tracking system.

2. We now have lost any semblance of synchronization with apple's internal darwin bug reporting. All old bugs are no longer viewable. We don't get to see apple engineer's comments on the bugs anymore.

You said we would be pleased by this, well, maybe, but not with the "bug reporting" part. It seems to have taken a great step backwards.

We ran into problems with people outside Apple taking snippets of certain bugs out of context, and sending them with flaming messages to our executives. After several dozen of those, it's really hard for a commercial company to continue to risk exposing itself to liability by publishing internal comments on bugs. We tried very hard to find a way to continue to share the Radar information with the general public, but felt that the cleanest and best approach would be a separate system. You will find many Apple engineers participating in OpenDarwin.org, and will still see comments from these people in OpenDarwin.org bug reports. Again, we really wanted a system that allows full community participation, and having a separate system is the best way we can achieve this at this time.

The "PPP bug" would never have been fixed without the back-and-forth the synchronization with the internal "open source" keyworded bugs provided.

Such a bug could very well exist on OpenDarwin.org, with the same result.

So yes, the interface is (hmmm) different, but people can step up and fix the interface or change the system if they're motivated to do so. Let's give this approach a try and see how it works. Nothing is ever cast in concrete, and we'd like to see how this works by giving full control to a community who is willing to pitch in together and help make it work.

Thanks for your insightful and meaningful questions.

Ron
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