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On 10/26/07, Sam Berlin <email@hidden> wrote:
> >From limited conversations with Sun folks, I always got the impression
> that Sun developers *wanted* to make sure Java ran perfectly on OS X.
> It seemed to be Apple that was holding them down, either for
> contractual reasons, or hidden APIs for the UI, or other such reasons.
>
> Of course, this statement has no factual basis other than hazy
> memories of old conversations... but it sounds so much like a reality
> that I'm hard-pressed to believe it isn't true.

I know of a couple of people from Sun and Apple at about that time,
and who are not at either company today.  The impression I got (which
matches my memory) was that Sun's 1.0.3 for Mac was a nightmare, and
that Sun did not see the Mac as a strategic platform worthy of
throwing massive resources at to deliver a quality JDK.  This was,
after all, pre-OS X, so threading and memory management were very
different.  Apple's desire to ship a better JDK was partially based on
what Sun shipped at that time.

Things are very different today - the JDK is open sourced, there are
at least three projects trying to port, Sun has delivered a pretty
good product on several plaftorms, and Apple has a Unix foundation.
According to engineers who should know, that was the history then, and
while I hate to contradict James Gosling, I really do tend to trust
engineers who worked at both companies at the time of the events.

I salute you if you wish to take on this task.  It is not easy - Apple
has had a team of ~10, working on this for at least two years.  The
Apple folk I know on that team are very competent, but there are other
competent people out there with different interests.  If you can find
a way to get more done, by trimming scope or by leveraging things you
know, then by all means, take it on.

I want to see more competition in this space - as I understand it,
pretty much all of the licensees are working from bog-standard Solaris
Java code, tuned, and rewritten as needed.  A truly new implementation
might open some eyes.

Scott

> On 10/26/07, Raymond Kolbe <email@hidden> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If there's significant support in this group, we should locate a member of
> > the openjdk community so that we can request him/her to propose the project.
> >  Perhaps it could be part of the jdk7 project.
> >
> > I think it's time we take this on, since Apple is clearly not the
> > appropriate source for Java.  I only say this because of their apparent
> > inability to support this product in the manner that we desire.  I believe
> > that Sun develops Java for Solaris, Linux, & Windows, it seems equally clear
> > that Sun has no interest in supporting OS X.  So if we want it, it's really
> > up to us.
> >
> > Since Java 1.6 is not in Leopard, I have no justification for purchasing the
> > new OS.  Since I prefer to develop on Solaris and deploy on OS X, it really
> > makes no sense for me to purchase an OS upgrade without the latest version
> > of Java.  Once that's available, I'll consider an os upgrade.
> >
> > Ray Kolbe
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: java-dev-bounces+rkolbe=email@hidden on behalf of
> > email@hidden
> > Sent: Fri 10/26/2007 1:26 PM
> > To: email@hidden
> > Subject: RE: How to get Java 1.6 - Build It!
> >
> > >   Are you organizing this project?  I'd be happy to sign on.
> >
> >       I'll be glad to do what I can.  I can't offer any development help,
> > since I don't have an Intel Mac.  But I'm willing to take on organization,
> > coordinating with the OpenJDK project, etc.
> >
> > Peter
> >  _______________________________________________
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> > This email sent to email@hidden
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> > Subject: RE: How to get Java 1.6 - Build It!
> >
> > >   Are you organizing this project?  I'd be happy to sign on.
> >
> >       I'll be glad to do what I can.  I can't offer any development help,
> > since I don't have an Intel Mac.  But I'm willing to take on organization,
> > coordinating with the OpenJDK project, etc.
> >
> > Peter
> >  _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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