On Dec 24, 2005, at 11:28 AM, Dave Schroeder wrote:
On Dec 23, 2005, at 8:52 PM, email@hidden wrote:
Also, a dual 2.3 GHz Xserve G5 configured as above is $3249 ($2724
education and government) - that would be an Xserve Cluster Node,
which is all you need to meet the above specifications.
Now you're rigging the comparison so that it is even more of
an Apples to oranges (ugh...pun) example. The cluster node Xserve
has no externally accessible drive bays, no CD/DVD drive, and no
video card....and it's still $500 more expensive. Also, I'm sure
HP offers government/educational discounts as well so that's really
just a red herring.
No, I'm not rigging anything. This is as close a comparison as you
can get between the two servers you chose. If your requirement is
only for 1 80GB drive, you're paying for a lot you don't need in
the non-Cluster Node Xserve. The Cluster Node does have an
externally accessible drive bay. All models of Xserve require
adding a video card if desired, meaning there is no distinction
with the Cluster Node versus a normal Xserve in this context.
The ONLY things different with the dual G5 Xserve versus the dual
G5 Xserve Cluster Node are:
- No optical drive in Cluster Node
- 1 externally accessible drive bay versus 3
- Mac OS X Server 10-client versus unlimited
- $1000 difference in price
This translates into a big difference in storage. The Apple Store
says this for the cluster
Xserve G5 Storage Options
The Xserve G5 features hot-pluggable Serial ATA Apple Drive Modules
with 80GB and 500GB drives running at 7200rpm and a 74GB 10,000rpm
drive, offering up to 1.5TB of capacity.
With these options :
80GB ADM (1x80GB 7,200rpm ADM)
74GB ADM (1x74GB 10,000rpm ADM) [Add $200]
500GB ADM (1x500GB 7,200rpm ADM) [Add $450]
So, if I am parsing this correctly,the Xserve offers only 500 GB
storage (despite what it says),
and offers no ability to mount a fiber channel RAID. This is not that
much for a video server.
How can you access more fast storage with a cluster ?
Regards
Marshall Eubanks
Everything else you change (e.g., adding RAM or a video card) is
required on either. Sorry, I forgot to add the video card. So add
$90 for a video card.
I added the edu/gov price since I am in that realm, and since many
on this list are.
I agree that for your task, some other server may be a better value.
But in some instances, the G5 is still a better value than the
alternatives:
The task at hand, and the one for which I solicited information about
benchmarks, and the only one relevant to this list, is a streaming
server.
That is the only task I'm interested in. You are the one who
seems to
have taken some sort of offense and widened the discussion. All I
asked
for was whether or not anyone on the list had benchmark numbers for
similarly configured systems. That's it.
If all you need the server for is a streaming server, then the
Xserve Cluster Node is absolutely fine, which is exactly why I
included it in the previous messages. There is NO reason whatsoever
to get the non-Cluster Node Xserve. The Cluster Node is also most
comparable to the HP, as specced.
Further, you're the one who took an article from *one web site*
about MySQL performance (using flawed methodology, and not exactly
related to the "task at hand") and concluded that Xserves don't
scale under heavy load. If true, I guess we and other sites are
defying reality. Apple might also be interested to hear this next
time it serves tens of thousands of simultaneous streams for the
Macworld Expo keynote.
Even though Apple generously hosts this list, I see people discussing
other architectures all the time. So....has anyone done this type of
direct comparison? That would probably be a very enlightening test
since DSS and QTSS share so much code. I'd be curious to see which
architecture/OS scales better as a streaming server.
I haven't taken issue with your desire for benchmarks. In fact,
we're in the process of testing Linux and Solaris on Opteron,
Solaris on Sparc, Linux and Windows on Intel x86, and Mac OS X
Server on PowerPC for a similar media service task (albeit not DSS/
QTSS). What I have taken issue with is an implicit blanket
statement that Mac OS X Server/Xserve doesn't scale well on the
basis of the tired anandtech article that has been trotted out all
over the place as "proof" that Mac OS X Server/Xserve is horrid in
comparison to Linux when no such thing is the case (I'm not saying
you were doing that, but you'll excuse my initial reaction when I
found out it was the anandtech article *again*). I had also taken
issue with the initial vague statement that other platforms are so
much less expensive as if it's a foregone conclusion, when we
ourselves haven't found that to be the case. Granted, Dell is our
x86 server platform of choice as well as our contract vendor, and I
don't have anything against HP, but I'd argue that there are more
costs to running a particular application than just the initial
capital expenditure. I'm sure you'll agree.
You're saying you don't want it to be a "PC vs. Mac" argument, but
you're making it that way with the same type of cost comparison
that people have been making for two decades. If people can't
recognize by now that there's more to the equation than price, then
I don't know what else to say. Now, if you're buying 100 machines
and Linux on Opteron performs famously for this task, then yeah,
I'd say you'd save a bundle. I'm not saying that Linux and non-
Apple platforms are never good choices; they often are. But if
you're getting a platform for *QuickTime Streaming*, I'd also argue
that a commercial vendor-supported solution for said task (QTSS)
might be in order depending on the importance of your project. Some
might even consider that worth extra dollars.
- Dave
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