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Re: [Fed-Talk] Re: Safari prompting for Cert selection
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Re: [Fed-Talk] Re: Safari prompting for Cert selection



To be perfectly clear the "my opinion" disclaimer really applies. Please don't conclude I disagree with you, just that I don't think the rest of Apple agrees with you or supports your viewpoint.

On Jul 4, 2008, at 12:43 PM, Shawn A. Geddis wrote:

/* Shawn's personal rant on this point follows */

FireFox is a complete stand-a-lone application which requires that all of its Certs / Trust / Settings be performed within the application - hence the _need_ to prompt _within_ the application for Passwords / Certs. This means that even if you already have the Certs / Passwords managed by Mac OS X, you have to duplicate your effort to tell FireFox what to do with the exact same information. Might be nice for Applications like FireFox to integrate with the OS they are running on and take better advantage of the OS Security / PKI services rather than needing to duplicate those same services. I am a little surprised that so many IT folks who are "Central Management" focused prefer an application that makes no effort in OS integration and requires redundant effort to manage. Maintaining good Security is hard enough without duplicating the required efforts. In my opinion, It is very dangerous to be pushing all of the security decision into the application that runs in user space. It is much safer and better practice to rely on the security enforcement of the OS.

Mac OS X provides a System-wide architecture for this which can be set _once_ and safely relied on by ever single application that leverages the corresponding Sec* APIs.

In this case the applications in question are only web browsers. I only have two, so I'm afraid the argument isn't that strong.


Even conceding that argument, there are others: 1) Apple doesn't support the industry-standard interface for smart-card and other certificate stores, PKCS-11, and 2) the Keychain UI is inadequate, 3) the centralized-selection philosophy you advocate is inconsistent with other UI changes Apple has made recently. To expand on 1) a bit, I can believe that tokend is a simpler, better API than PKCS-11, and I couldn't care less. It's not the standard. To expand on 2) a bit, there is no way a user could ever reasonably discover the Keychain operations needed, *even*if* they looked in Keychain Access instead of Safari because a "right-click" is required before you can even see it exists. Also, the method for inspecting cert preferences bears no relation to how they are set. To expand on 3) a bit, it wasn't too long ago that Apple moved Internet Preferences items to the respective Apple-supplied applications. Now you must start up Safari to set Firefox as your default browser, Apple Mail to set Thunderbird, etc. The change seems philosophically opposed to what you're advocating (however logical it might be in terms of underlying function). Do Apple's current Human Interface Guidelines properly address this point?

Generally, how is a user supposed to discover that a certificate preference needs to be set in a utility they've never heard of, using a GUI operation with a mouse button they don't have, if Safari never tells them? User friendliness means not bothering people with what they don't need to know, but conversely it also means you do need to tell them what they do need to know, and you need to tell them when and where they hit the situation where they need to know it.

Not only that, Applications do not need to attempt to get into the security game and try to do security -- which frequently is one of their last concerns. Safari is relying, as it should, on the Security / Certificate management of the OS. That said, the OS is performing all of the Certificate parsing, chain-of-trust validation, confirming proper key usage, etc.

I agree with this, at least philosophically. I do think that Apple could do a better job of following standard industry practice in how they deal with PKI though.


/* Thus ends Shawn's personal rant on this point :-) */

------------------------------------------------------ The opinions expressed in this message are mine, not those of Caltech, JPL, NASA, or the US Government. email@hidden, or email@hidden



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References: 
 >Re: [Fed-Talk] [Discussion] (2) Card recognized, but I cannot access PKI protected Websites (From: Boyd Fletcher <email@hidden>)
 >[Fed-Talk] Re: Safari prompting for Cert selection (From: "Shawn A. Geddis" <email@hidden>)



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