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Re: Mac OS X Java Performance

op 28-07-2003 23:15 schreef Luc Girardin op java-dev:

> Coincidentally, one of the application I was referring to in my
> previous message is also based on Repast simulation environment.

[]

> The performance is awfully bad when run with the various graphical
> windows and gets to an acceptable level when they are minimized.

[]

> I would be delighted to see these applications run smoothly on the
> Mac. I can provide the entire source code of the first example and can
> extract some code snippets of the second. If some of the Mac
> proponents could shed the light on how to get descent performances,
> then I would be thankful.

I've been following the discussion here, and I think most people agree that
'Java performance on OS X' has two components:

- general (non-gui) performance, which is GOOD
- gui / graphics operations performance, which (esp. under 1.4.*) is AWFUL!

I attended the 'Java Performance' (!) session at WWDC. Of course I cannot
divulge any details of what was shown, but the gist of it was:

(regarding graphics)

'our 1.3.1 graphics optimisation was a '90% solution', which we could not
bring to 100%. Therefore, in 1.4 we flushed (pun intended) our complete
implementation of the graphics system'.

In other words: they trashed years of tweaking and development to start over
with a new design. I came away from the meeting feeling that it will take
quite some time (years?) before graphics performance under 1.4 will be on
par with that on 1.3.1, let alone approach the speed on other platforms.
[this is _purely_ a gut feeling, I have _nothing_ to back this up]

Remember also, that even in Cocoa and Carbon graphics are generally slow.

If you can make your program run under Java 1.1 you could run it (fast!)
under Classic... ;-)

op 28-07-2003 23:15 schreef Luc Girardin op java-dev:

> Well, I used the bug reporting system of Apple more than a year ago,
> and never got a reply. This openness of this system makes me feel like
> sending bugs in a well to oblivion. Maybe one feels better afterward,
> me not!
>
> This just to say that if some engineers of Apple are listening
> (should, as this listed is hosted by them) and are unaware of the
> behavior of their VM, then they can find in my previous message
> examples of applications that exhibit the performance penalty that
> quite a few of us are faced with.

You can rest assured () that they are painfully aware of the shortcomings of
the (graphics) implementation of the 1.4 VM. Many people on this list
(including myself) have submitted bug reports, and my guess is that they are
pretty well inundated with reports. One thing you realise at WWDC is how
small the development teams for specific technologies at Apple really are...
There is lots of enthusiasm and good will, but choices have to be made. So
we have to be patient for a while longer, and hope that regular updates
aleviate the pain.

Patrick
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