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Re: Mac OS X Java Performance moved to X-Code

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:03 PM, Todd Blanchard wrote:

If they were at all serious about the corporate market, they wouldn't have dropped support for EOF using Cocoa.

That was a decision made a long time ago, when EOF became WO.

If, by EOF using Cocoa, you mean EOF in ObjC as the basis of WO, I cannot agree. We deployed three WO apps this year, which would not have happened if it had not worked on Windows and Linux using buzzword compliant Java goodies. Heck, we saw the most resistance against using WO stemming from the archaic version of EOModeller and PB on Windows, because they felt they understood what an app server that may work completely under JBoss was.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see a way of getting at databases from Cocoa that does not require a WO license per laptop, but I am not sure this shows a failure to address the corporate market. From where we sit, we got to do some WO contracting, which was not possible when WO was ObjC based.

Apple's only "enterprise" offering is WebObjects (which continually has quality problems with every release) and a little java compatibility. That's just not going to cut it. If they really want to pick up the corporate space, they'd do well to freeze java development where it is and put some effort into getting Mono mature and ported onto OSX to absorb what will definitely be a huge number of .NUT applications.

Gah! That would be an utter, unmitigated disaster for our work. We would sell damn few .NET items with the Mac as a destination, and a frozen Java would kill our ability to use Macs at all.

We have a number of biotech clients, who code in Java. .NET and Mono are going to matter, since they do have some initiatives with them, but if we do not have a reasonably competitive Java VM, they would not spend a moment on the platform. They accept occasional delays, but were it completely frozen, they would start to migrate and not come back.

The current Java implementation _is_ competitive for the work we do at this instant. It has slow spots, but they do not seem to impact _our_ applications, and _if_ those spots are addressed in a timely manner, they will not complain too much.

I suspect our perception that it is acceptable, if not a barn burner, is a by-product of the exact things we, and they, are doing, but that is how it is coming up. That does NOT imply that it will be competitive forever - already, I hear grumbling about needing the better JVMPI in 1.4.2, and they want a fast, cool, jogl implementation. Further, if 1.5 ships and we are too far behind, that will be a problem. These problems would happen if the "freeze java development where it is".

Scott
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 >Re: Mac OS X Java Performance moved to X-Code (From: Todd Blanchard <email@hidden>)



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