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Re: Java to Cocoa?
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Re: Java to Cocoa?

A few major points to Charles first, then I'll get to this goofy garbage collection squabble :

1) dump CodeWarrior, or just don't upgrade from 8, I guess, if you *have* to use it. Apple's tools ( or those from other vendors which *do* support the languages and features you want ) will serve you well even if you are going for cross-platform, and many are a hell of a lot cheaper than CodeWarrior. Are you programming for embedded devices? I didn't think so. You shouldn't be more attached to your IDE than your code and programming skill set.

2) it sounds like you might want to consider staying Java and using JNI as you have been. USB and FireWire aren't Apple-only things.

3) how 'up in the air' is QuickTime Java, really ? You can't use 1.3.1 until things settle out on the 3D front ?

4) how truly evil can Windows be now that it runs iTunes ( http://www.apple.com ) ? ;-) Yea, evil, I know...

the more I read from you, the more my advice to you is "don't", unless you just want a native OS X app, which is *great* if that's your goal. If you *also* want a Windows app, and potentially a Linux or BSD or Solaris app as well... stay with Java, JNI may seem "indirect", but how much of your application do you want to have to re-write for every platform, a fraction of it, not including the UI, or all of it ?

Chris, Glen, ease up on the Objective-C vs. Java comparisons a bit, will ya? It's only cute for so long... ;-) OK, actually, that's all pretty funny given some of the recent threads on this list over the past few months. It's very easy to make statements which are just a *tad* to general... "Objective-C garbage collection isn't as all-encompassing as Java garbage collection" might have been a better way to try to avoid all that, but even making the comparison can be dangerous. Both languages have something considered "garbage collection", although they're very different in many aspects, and it's possible to screw up either one. They're *different*.

It's not a trivial matter to port any native-code application between platforms, even if you *can* use the same programming language. Moving an application between programming languages is *a complete re-write*, and no small matter, even on a single platform, and that's the bottom line to this thread. IMHO, ( really, it's humble, I swear! ), despite the troubles he's had in the past, I think Charles needs to consider very carefully the amount of work he's likely to get himself into by moving to an entirely native code base, *especially* if he's thinking of supporting multiple platforms.

On Thursday, October 16, 2003, at 11:07 AM, Charles Thomas wrote:

So why bother with the Mac market at all, then?

We're in academia where OSX is a very large chunk of our user base. That and the fact that Windows is, of course, pure evil incarnate. ;-)

Is the firewire etc stuff currently in Java, or C++ through JNI? I'm confused about the architecture, so I hope my comments aren't too irrelevant.

We had been using javax.comm for serial port access, but so far USB is not similarly supported. We'd been using JNI for framegrabber (image digitization) stuff, but want to move to firewire. Since none of this stuff is REALLY written yet (in the form we want to use) it's just as well to write it in another language.

Are you saying you just want to convert the GUI to Cocoa, or the whole app?

The whole thing. Since the non-GUI portion is the part that's problematic, it'll be necessary. The Java GUI works great, and accessing hardware through JNI is one option, but with CW potentially jumping ship on Java and QT4Java still up in the air, PLUS the hassle of indirectly accessing hardware... it's a tough call. I've been in the Mac Java game for many years and it's been an uphill battle all the way.

since you're talking about going from one language to another, you're truthfully talking about a complete re-write of your application. Recognize your project as a complete rewrite and the end result will likely be better for it.

This kind of advice is useful, even if it's not what I wanted to hear.

Thanks to all who responded.

CT

--
Charles Thomas
4D Software Engineer Laboratory for Optical and Computational Instrumentation (LOCI)
Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
1675 Observatory Dr.
Madison, WI 53706
608-263-6288 Office
608-265-3083 Fax email@hidden

http://www.loci.wisc.edu/4d
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