Mailing Lists: Apple Mailing Lists

Image of Mac OS face in stamp
 
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Java 1.5




On Oct 4, 2004, at 2:14 PM, David Rocks wrote:

You make a lot of points and I don't want this to run on forever, but if Apple doesn't care about it's developers, then they should be perfectly happy with nothing but ported apps that look like MS and and are always behind. It isn't about what Apple think developers need, but what developers think they need.

Apple cares a great deal about their developers. They do listen to bug reports and feature requests, and they also listen on other feedback channels. I have gotten letters from various managers if I posted something to them which they thought needed clarification, so I know they read the feedback mail.


That said, Apple must also care about staying in business, so everything they do must produce revenue at the end of the day. More developers and more products help with the revenue, which is why XCode is free, and Java is pre installed. Some products are niche enough that they need their own revenue stream, which likely explains why WebObjects costs money. If you want to change a decision of theirs, then use a businesslike argument. I do suggest using real financial numbers. The programmers at Apple likely do not care about the financial info, but the higher level decision makers sure do.

To be as blunt as possible: if you want Apple to release Java 1.5 for Panther, create a business case with real numbers. Assume that it will cost them time and energy to port 1.5 to Panther, and see if you can make a case that this is worthwhile. Include the number of developers and the number of machines they buy, and the expected targets. If you sell an app, include a customer estimate.

I sent them a letter describing the expected timeframes for several of our clients going to Java 1.4 and Java 1.5. I did not expect them to change their business model, but I did expect them to use those numbers in planning. I described the number of developers, the number of Apple machines they purchase for development, and the number of machines that would be used for deployment. I also tried to give a concrete idea about which things were nice to have, and which would break the deal.

For example, one client has shipped a couple of racks of servers to various federal agencies. Before the XServe, those racks were Apple-free, even though they were running industry standard Tomcat. Post XServe, said client started putting them in the deployed machines. I was far from the only developer asking for XServes at WWDC some years back, and Apple obviously heard us. They got pushed above a tablet PC, for example.

For what it is worth, our clients are going to be deploying on 1.5 sometime early next year for the very first projects. These pilot projects are going to start fairly soon - perhaps November. If I cannot use 1.5, then I cannot work on those projects, so I will almost certainly create a Tiger partition, install 1.5, and roll onwards. They will not deploy on a beta OS with a beta JDK, so I really hope Tiger does ship in the early part of 2005H1, but I can, as a developer, use a beta OS and a beta JDK to work on the eventual projects. I have before.

I have also used Virtual PC for testing, and my Mac for development. Even with the added deployment grief, it was still better to have a for-real bash prompt and system utils than to go to Windows.

We are developers - we have to make the call about what saves us time when buying machines and making deployment decisions. It is in our interest to let Apple know what went into those decisions, preferably early enough for them to make their own plans.

Scott

_______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Java-dev mailing list      (email@hidden)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/java-dev/email@hidden

This email sent to email@hidden
References: 
 >Java 1.5 (From: David Rocks <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Java 1.5 (From: email@hidden)
 >Re: Java 1.5 (From: David Rocks <email@hidden>)



Visit the Apple Store online or at retail locations.
1-800-MY-APPLE

Contact Apple | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2007 Apple Inc. All rights reserved.