Thanks for the thought out post, Scott. I'm on the java-dev list
mainly for historical reasons (unsubscribing from a still-useful list
is rarely a good idea).
You overstate my current dislike of Apple, though. I'm not fanatical
enough to have a priority of "preventing the sale of Apple gear", nor
am I actively telling people to avoid Apple products. (In fact, I've
purchased 4 iPods and have recommended them to many people.) I have
no problem with promoting good products that have good uses, and no
amount of tainted apples will change that.
I do believe I'm still within the target market, if only because Apple
thrives on customer loyalty, and their continued abasement of Java
development serves to remove developers (and by extension, users). It
would be foolish of Apple to turn a blind eye to the past & present
and just ignore voiced problems. If the future sees a change in Java
deployment, I will certainly change my mind -- I've no problem with,
and would actually enjoy, being able to say that my criticisms are
out-dated.
Apple has altered their Java upgrades in the past (in what I can only
hope was a recognition of developer complaints). Java used to break
on almost every system update, probably because of the class-sharing
-- so Apple turned it off. While I can't say I necessarily agree with
that method of fixing the problem, it apparently worked.
While my voice may not be popular, I would hope that some people
recognize that there are current problems with the way Apple handles
Java development, and some changes are made.
Thanks,
Sam
PS: I am passively looking for a job, should Apple want to hire me and
make changes. :)
On 10/13/05, Scott Ellsworth <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 11:21 AM, Sam Berlin wrote:
>
> >> It's not hard to run the tests, it just takes some time.
> >>
> >
> > It is somewhat hard (if not expensive) if you haven't already
> > purchased Tiger.
>
> This seems like a red herring, from a developer perspective.
> Developers have to fork over the cash for the tools they need for the
> job. Our users may choose not to upgrade, and developers must make
> decisions about the earliest platform they support, but if our
> customers might buy the latest and greatest, we developers have to
> test on it.
>
> If I recall correctly, you said that you do not currently have any
> Mac customers you are trying to support. I also recall that you do
> not use a mac if you can help it, and that you reccomend against Mac
> purchases, on the basis of their Java policy. Certainly, that is
> your right, but it does make me wonder what market you might
> represent to Apple, and Apple java developers, and thus what benefit
> you get from being on java-dev? After all, all current Java
> development on the platform is taking place two operating system
> releases later than yours.
>
> I believe you said it as 'lackluster support of Java and Java
> developers', but if you are not working with 10.4, you are not
> working where they are supporting Java developers. I am not saying
> you are wrong, though I disagree. I _am_ saying that you are not in
> their target market.
>
> Perhaps IBM, or Apache will end up porting a VM - they certainly
> could were they minded to. Until they do, though, Apple's java
> development is driven by Apple's priorities. Previously, you have
> said that your priorities are to prevent the sale of Apple gear -
> hardly something designed to make them listen to you on what would
> sell Macs.
>
> I do understand not liking a platform - I am not fond of Windows and
> I do not use it if I can avoid it. My local Windows machine runs
> win2k, which works for the clients I have that need windows support.
> When they need xp support, I will upgrade. That said, I do not hang
> out in Windows-specific fora, as it would do neither them nor me any
> good. I do hang out in Java fora, and in Mac fora, as those are
> where my customers hang out.
>
> Scott
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