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Re: Apple should get behind Cocoa Java



These are 2 different things really.

The Cocoa-Java bridge going away is not really related to Apple moving Java forward on the platform. If I were to guess, the philosophy would be:

Apps that run only on macs should be done in Objective-C, because that is the best language for the platform, and certainly the most popular language being used. There are not many people using Java to make cocoa apps, because the main reason to use Java is cross- platform, and using Apple specific functionality from Java just doesn't make sense.

For people who are developing Java for cross-platform use, Apple still wants to be the development environment of choice, so they will work harder to move newer versions of Java onto the platform sooner, but if you want cocoa API's, use Objective-C.


To me, this is a reasonable philosophy. To give users the experience they want (and sells macs), the APIs have to expand and improve. To have a team of people dedicated to moving cocoa APIs to java is just not worth it to them.


Ken

PS  Hi Vince!


On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Andrei Tchijov wrote:

This question was discussed in great length 1/2 year ago. The major reason is Objective-C <-> Java bridge which lays in foundation of Java-Cocoa. Basically Apple decided that it was tacking too much efforts to keep supporting it even in "as-is" state. And Apple was not too happy with "as-is" state of this project either.

It seems Apple got much less enthusiastic about java some time around Tiger (remember how long it took to get Java 1.5 ). I do hope that Steve will change his mind about Java (and jugging by progress of Java 6 on Apple he actually might).

Andrei Tchijov

On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Terry Simons wrote:

Apple has announced that there will be no new Java-based Cocoa API shims after Mac OS X 10.4, though I'm not sure what the reasoning behind that was, but you have access to a lot of Cocoa APIs from Java already...

I doubt the Core Animation stuff will become available, though.

Maybe someone else on the list can comment about Apple's reasoning behind dropping future API support.

- Terry

On Aug 16, 2006, at 9:24 AM, Vince Marco wrote:

In the past Cocoa Java apps really haven't been very interesting to me. I've been on a Mac long before Java, but my Java development has been J2EE, Swing, and SWT. But now that Apple is shipping Intel-based computers capable of running Windows and Linux, I find access to Cocoa and the Core APIs from Java would be compelling.

I am currently consulting to a Fortune 100 company on Wall Street, which does not include OSX as a supported OS. However, I do all my work on a MacBook Pro, and there are a few other users that are unofficial mac users. My point here is that companies need motivation for opening up to Apple products. Individuals at the companies I visit always gawk at what I can do on my Mac, but companies don't currently take notice.

My app is EclipseRCP and involves data center recovery and visualization. Currently my app is pretty simple, but provides a very compelling GUI to the managers and executives backing the effort, and is built on OSX and delivered for OSX, Windows and Linux. Most specifically it is a rich client app accessing an SOA backend. I believe that as enterprises extend into Service- Oriented Architectures, they will be more open to rich client applications. Since XML enables crossing technologies, it opens the door to have rich client applications which specialize in specific areas such as 3D visualization. The demo of CoreAnimation in Leopard struck a chord with what I'm doing. Creating an app that can produce visualization of applications, servers, and networking in and among multiple data centers is exactly the kind of thing that could pull OSX into the enterprise space (unlike the still impressive flying album covers in 3D). And it's also the kind of thing that AJAX (or Windows for that matter) just isn't going to be able to match, at least as efficiently.

However, asking enterprises to foster and support Objective-C development is pushing a bit too far. So here is my request to Apple for getting behind Cocoa Java and especially Core API access from Java. While it wouldn't guarantee enterprise adoption of OSX, it could open the door to getting OSX as an accepted platform in many organizations (for specific purposes anyway) and lead to a market that currently totally ignores Apple products.

Vince Marco
Enterprise Frameworks, Inc.
(and Taligent Alumni ;-)

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References: 
 >Apple should get behind Cocoa Java (From: Vince Marco <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Apple should get behind Cocoa Java (From: Terry Simons <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Apple should get behind Cocoa Java (From: Andrei Tchijov <email@hidden>)



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