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Re: Apple should get behind Cocoa Java

I fully understand that there has not been much Cocoa Java development in the past. I too, have not been interested in developing Java apps limited to OSX. However, Core Animation (all the Core APIs) and Cocoa are compelling!! And with Mac hardware now Intel-based, Apple becomes a viable workstation for enterprises.

I'm not saying every enterprise desktop needs to be OSX, and I'm not saying that every app needs to be Cocoa Java. I am saying I'd like OSX on the supported OS list for my customers, and I'd like to be able to build web apps where appropriate, JFC/Swing apps where appropriate, EclipseRCP apps where appropriate, and Cocoa/Java apps where appropriate. It is simply what Apple must do in order to become a provider in the enterprise market.

The Cocoa-Java bridge going away is not really related to Apple moving Java forward on the platform. If I were to guess, the philosophy would be:

Apps that run only on macs should be done in Objective-C, because that is the best language for the platform, and certainly the most popular language being used. There are not many people using Java to make cocoa apps, because the main reason to use Java is cross- platform, and using Apple specific functionality from Java just doesn't make sense.

This is exactly the kind of chutzpah I believe Apple needs to show to make OSX make sense for enterprises. How many Java apps do you think are actually WORA? You don't see MS holding back with C# because it is a Java knockoff. No, they're going to make .NET as productive as possible and tell companies to depend on them. When MS shuns Java, Apple should support it all out, even producing tools which leverage OSX to the fullest. Surely you don't think companies buy Windows computers because of the support for cross-platform Java. ;-)

Besides, companies may have chosen Java because it can be cross- platform, but they build Java apps because it's what their developers know.

For people who are developing Java for cross-platform use, Apple still wants to be the development environment of choice, so they will work harder to move newer versions of Java onto the platform sooner, but if you want cocoa API's, use Objective-C.


To me, this is a reasonable philosophy. To give users the experience they want (and sells macs), the APIs have to expand and improve. To have a team of people dedicated to moving cocoa APIs to java is just not worth it to them.

I understand it to be reasonable to a Mac developer or consumer. But I've never understood Apple's refusal to pursue the enterprise desktop market. It isn't just going to fall into their lap, no matter how cool OSX is. Even back at Taligent, IBM was never worried about sharing technologies with Apple because they were never a threat in their space.

It is a move that would be well worth their time. It would only take few enterprise customers to pay for the effort.

Shawn, I hear you on the "make it happen" statement. It could be done via open source, but that doesn't really fly for enterprises either. In order for this to help pull OSX into enterprise, they need Apple behind it with support. But if Apple chooses not to see it, then it will have to be OSS.

Vince

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References: 
 >Apple should get behind Cocoa Java (From: Vince Marco <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Apple should get behind Cocoa Java (From: Terry Simons <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Apple should get behind Cocoa Java (From: Andrei Tchijov <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Apple should get behind Cocoa Java (From: Ken Anderson <email@hidden>)



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