Thread-topic: Im starting to despise java programming for the mac
WTG Mikael, Jason, Kustaa...
Hang in there Adam. It's true enough that doing cross platform Java
development on the Macintosh can be frustrating at times - things that
are not issues on Linux or Windows suddenly become issues on OS X. My
experience with a rather large UI application (a complete program) is
that less than 5% of our code (maybe 1%) is Macintosh specific, which is
10 times more than the Windows specific code. So that means that 95% to
99% of your code is common code - huge bonus in consistency and
reduction of duplicated effort.
>From the other side I find working in Java is enormously more productive
and satisfying than working in C/C++ or Objective-C; working in Perl
code is sort of like working in APL (only the original author can
understand the code).
I've seen many people vent in this newsgroup - I think it's OK to
sometimes because we all get frustrated too. More importantly look to
this newsgroup for answers to your specific problems once you get past
the venting - there are some really smart and experienced people who
read this stuff. Hopefully Scott's comments were useful. If you're still
having problems try to explain the issue in more detail and maybe
someone will have an answer.
Cheers, Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: java-dev-bounces+eric.kolotyluk=email@hidden
[mailto:java-dev-bounces+eric.kolotyluk=email@hidden] On
Behalf Of Mikael Hakman
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:40 AM
To: Kustaa Nyholm; email@hidden
Subject: Re: Im starting to despise java programming for the mac
Right on target Jason and Kustaa!
Recently I ported a number of audio quality assessment tools including
charting and advanced math libraries from XP to OS X. The "porting"
consisted of coping Eclipse projects from XP to Eclipse on OS X and
running
verification tests. I didn't have to change a single line of code.
I have been working with C/C++ for many, many years. While it is
possible to
write portable code in this language, the amount of work and knowledge
about
all quirks of various compilers, operating systems, platforms,
processors
etc required to successfully accomplish this for any non-trivial project
is
astonishing. Not to mention the code becoming almost unreadable due to
use
of all macros referring to macros etc in absurdum, all macros required
for
portability. In terms of work effort it is 10:1 or more as compared to
Java.
Using Swing for GUI yields beautiful, native look-and-feel supporting
most
if not all native "special" features. You can see some screen dumps
resulting from my OS X port in a report at
http://www.dkab.net/Realtek%20HDA%20report.pdf
Few native things that aren't possible to do in Java (yet) are easily
done
using a JNI library. This often is a very small and thin layer of C/C++
glue
to the operating system in question and therefore easy to create and
maintain.
Regards/Mikael
On Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:28 AM, Kustaa Nyholm wrote:
>
> I agree with Jason completely. I'm involved in several non trivial
> Java/Swing application projects and
> the need to test/debug everywhere is minimal. Mostly it just works.
>
> What C / Perl gui toolkit would work accross Linux/Mac OS/Windows?
> What GUI toolkit would even passably make the application look native
> enough?
>
> Swing is not perfect, but mostly good enough. And this is just GUI,
how
> about
> file io, network io, endiandness issues, memory management etc etc....
> both
> at development and deployment level.
>
> I think we should skip this trolling, I suspect this was sent just to
> inflame people,
> just ignore it.
>
> br Kusti
>
>
>>>> Jason Proctor <email@hidden> 27.8.2008 10:50:42 >>>
> troll.
>
> my company deploys a non-trivial Java Swing application on Mac,
> Windows, and Linux. i develop on Mac, and i don't even have to test
> on Windows and Linux because experience has told me i know it's going
> to work. the JDK is subject to the JCK, which ensures that anything
> claiming to be Java has to pass a stringent test before it's allowed
> to claim that it's JDK compliant.
>
> suggesting that Perl or C is in any way platform independent is pure
> bollocks.
>
> do you have any actual experience to back up your claim? i suspect
> not.
>
>
>
>>Don't you know the statement "Java, Compile once, Debug everywhere..."
> ?
>>The only reason you need java for mac is for old applets or to
>>support the college community.
>>No person (no sane person) is going to develop a complete program in
> java.
>>If you want full platform independency then you should write your
>>programs in perl or C...
>>
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