I sometimes experience the opposite of the problem you originally
described.
I develop on a Mac, and deploy primarily to Windows machines.
When I work on my UI on the Mac, it really looks sweet. Then I run it
on Windows, and it looses quite a bit in the translation. Not only is
the Window look&feel pretty dull compared to Aqua, I'm still amazed
that all these years after the first GUI computers, Windows still
can't render decent fonts. I notice that the most - the fonts just
look better on the Mac than on Windows, and I spend a lot of time
trying to tweak the font and sizes I use on Windows to try to match
how they look on the Mac.
Rob Ross, Lead Software Engineer
E! Networks
---------------------------------------------------
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his
heart he dreams himself your master." -- Commissioner Pravin Lal
On Aug 27, 2008, at 11:17 AM, Adam Ornstein wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the support.
Yes, it was extremely frustrating and at times infuriating to
transition some of the code to comply with Mac OS. BUT the
majority of the code did work the first time that I ran it, as a
matter of fact, just about all of the code "worked" - some things
had to be modified for appearences, surprise differences in picking
up variable changes, and error messages etc.
Finally though after 2 weeks of redeveloping this application for
the mac, I finally worked through this miserable experience of
updating the graphics drawing code to match what I see on the pc.
Whew! And although it was a tough experience, I am 100% sure that
if I developed it in C++/C#/VB/perl/ etc, that it would have taken
longer, and I just flat out probably would not have ported it to
the mac.
This java application is going to go out the door to a first mac
"customer" (ok im giving it to him for free for "testing")
tomorrow. I can say that Im excited, and I know that this is going
to take much more time to complete, but who needs sleep as a
developer/business man?
Oh also, I developed this to use QTJava - is it safe to assume that
this is installed on every mac?
Thanks again.
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:19:39 -0700
> From: email@hidden
> To: email@hidden
> CC:
> Subject: RE: Im starting to despise java programming for the mac
>
> WTG Mikael, Jason, Kustaa...
>
> Hang in there Adam. It's true enough that doing cross platform Java
> development on the Macintosh can be frustrating at times - things
that
> are not issues on Linux or Windows suddenly become issues on OS
X. My
> experience with a rather large UI application (a complete
program) is
> that less than 5% of our code (maybe 1%) is Macintosh specific,
which is
> 10 times more than the Windows specific code. So that means that
95% to
> 99% of your code is common code - huge bonus in consistency and
> reduction of duplicated effort.
>
> >From the other side I find working in Java is enormously more
productive
> and satisfying than working in C/C++ or Objective-C; working in Perl
> code is sort of like working in APL (only the original author can
> understand the code).
>
> I've seen many people vent in this newsgroup - I think it's OK to
> sometimes because we all get frustrated too. More importantly
look to
> this newsgroup for answers to your specific problems once you get
past
> the venting - there are some really smart and experienced people who
> read this stuff. Hopefully Scott's comments were useful. If
you're still
> having problems try to explain the issue in more detail and maybe
> someone will have an answer.
>
> Cheers, Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: java-dev-bounces+eric.kolotyluk=email@hidden
> [mailto:java-dev-bounces
+eric.kolotyluk=email@hidden] On
> Behalf Of Mikael Hakman
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:40 AM
> To: Kustaa Nyholm; email@hidden
> Subject: Re: Im starting to despise java programming for the mac
>
> Right on target Jason and Kustaa!
>
> Recently I ported a number of audio quality assessment tools
including
> charting and advanced math libraries from XP to OS X. The "porting"
> consisted of coping Eclipse projects from XP to Eclipse on OS X and
> running
> verification tests. I didn't have to change a single line of code.
>
> I have been working with C/C++ for many, many years. While it is
> possible to
> write portable code in this language, the amount of work and
knowledge
> about
> all quirks of various compilers, operating systems, platforms,
> processors
> etc required to successfully accomplish this for any non-trivial
project
> is
> astonishing. Not to mention the code becoming almost unreadable
due to
> use
> of all macros referring to macros etc in absurdum, all macros
required
> for
> portability. In terms of work effort it is 10:1 or more as
compared to
> Java.
>
> Using Swing for GUI yields beautiful, native look-and-feel
supporting
> most
> if not all native "special" features. You can see some screen dumps
> resulting from my OS X port in a report at
> http://www.dkab.net/Realtek%20HDA%20report.pdf
>
> Few native things that aren't possible to do in Java (yet) are
easily
> done
> using a JNI library. This often is a very small and thin layer of
C/C++
> glue
> to the operating system in question and therefore easy to create and
> maintain.
>
> Regards/Mikael
>
> On Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:28 AM, Kustaa Nyholm wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I agree with Jason completely. I'm involved in several non trivial
> > Java/Swing application projects and
> > the need to test/debug everywhere is minimal. Mostly it just
works.
> >
> > What C / Perl gui toolkit would work accross Linux/Mac OS/Windows?
> > What GUI toolkit would even passably make the application look
native
> > enough?
> >
> > Swing is not perfect, but mostly good enough. And this is just
GUI,
> how
> > about
> > file io, network io, endiandness issues, memory management etc
etc....
> > both
> > at development and deployment level.
> >
> > I think we should skip this trolling, I suspect this was sent
just to
> > inflame people,
> > just ignore it.
> >
> > br Kusti
> >
> >
> >>>> Jason Proctor <email@hidden> 27.8.2008 10:50:42 >>>
> > troll.
> >
> > my company deploys a non-trivial Java Swing application on Mac,
> > Windows, and Linux. i develop on Mac, and i don't even have to
test
> > on Windows and Linux because experience has told me i know it's
going
> > to work. the JDK is subject to the JCK, which ensures that
anything
> > claiming to be Java has to pass a stringent test before it's
allowed
> > to claim that it's JDK compliant.
> >
> > suggesting that Perl or C is in any way platform independent is
pure
> > bollocks.
> >
> > do you have any actual experience to back up your claim? i suspect
> > not.
> >
> >
> >
> >>Don't you know the statement "Java, Compile once, Debug
everywhere..."
> > ?
> >>The only reason you need java for mac is for old applets or to
> >>support the college community.
> >>No person (no sane person) is going to develop a complete
program in
> > java.
> >>If you want full platform independency then you should write your
> >>programs in perl or C...
> >>
>
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