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Re: 10.5 Server sucks, 10.5 sucks



On Mar 7, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Angus Fox wrote:
For anyone still listening I would like to say that it is my right to lose confidence if I cant get it to work. I dont need an uber admin bully telling me to get a different job to reinforce it. And Apple - neither do you - get back to making Leopard Server great as fast as possible please before people like me give up.

Speaking only for myself, I think that Leopard server is an improvement over the previous OS/X server version, in that I have actually been able to get almost everything I've attempted with it to work.


However, I came to OS/X server from over two decades of small-scale BSD* server administration, and I had expectations about it that I have come to understand simply aren't true. If you want to use the GUI exclusively or near-exclusively, then there are things you probably won't be able to do, that you can do, even fairly easily, on other server platforms. (If you don't care about using the GUI, then I question the cost/benefit value of the server software, at least for a small lab like ours.)

I started with Tiger and went in and started editing configuration files, installing scripts, and all that, to try to make it do what I'd been doing with FreeBSD. However, after system upgrades the scripts would stop working for mysterious reasons and there were strange interactions with the GUI adminstrative interface that took lots of time to track down, if I could even track things down. So I eventually gave up on Tiger server and just used the machine as a local file server and kept on using the aging FreeBSD servers until I got my hands on Leopard.

With Leopard, I made the conscious decision to stay within the bounds of the OS/X GUI worldview, which meant changing the hardware, software, and network architecture of our lab to be compatible with it. I'm almost done with the set-up (I can't work on it full time, I'm actually more of a researcher than a computer system administrator), but so far, so good. The full change-over will be happening within the next couple of weeks. Almost everything I've done has been via the GUI.

My main observation is that the GUI is very unfriendly to people who do things wrong the first time. Since I'm sort of feeling my way, I've had to back out changes and re-do things, and that has created lots of problems for me. It's probably a better policy to (1) plan everything as best you can, but (2) if you realize you've set something up the "wrong" way and the system is not cooperating with undoing whatever it is, you'll be happier in the end if you write down all your notes and start over again with a fresh install. Obviously, the further along you are when you come to this eventuality, the more pissed off you'll be.

There definitely seem to be bugs in the GUI, and that complicates trying to understand what just went wrong: did you misunderstand something, type something wrong, find a bug in the underlying system, or is it just another Server Admin or Workgroup Manager bug or limitation? It would really help if there was some way to click on an "explain" button next to every field, menu item, and button in those programs, that would tell you exactly which underlying configuration files were being affected and how, along with a pointer to the relevant passages in the documentation. But of course, there isn't.

Some sort of automatic backup/rewind/undo capability in the server administration software would be a huge win: imagine a Cmd-Z style functionality that could ultimately rewind the system back to a fresh install. Perhaps a good integration of Time Machine with the server could actually do that.

Oh, and I also got a couple of very helpful comments on this list to specific questions I had. So don't give up yet.

Cheers,
Greg Shenaut
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References: 
 >10.5 Server sucks, 10.5 sucks (From: Tatsu Ikeda <email@hidden>)
 >Re: 10.5 Server sucks, 10.5 sucks (From: Angus Fox <email@hidden>)
 >Re: 10.5 Server sucks, 10.5 sucks (From: Angus Fox <email@hidden>)



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