I agree that pre-processing is better: when denoising, descratching,
spotting flickering is done after the editing movies should be scenalized.
Now that video can be shot profressive at 24p (cameras like the Viper can
also output uncompressed, 4:4:4, 1080p) The grain is what made the stock
looks different (the way we used to) but dvd productions haven't to cope
with the typical internet datarate, even in case of HTTP download. low
datarate codecs perform of antialias a lot during the playback (I mean
deblocking and so on) thus destroying the grain pattern. It's better not
having noise at all.
Grain in the '90s movies is beautifull but that of the '80s is much more
than an issue: It's big and the saturation is low for all the color spectrum
but the reds.
Think for a while about movies like "Frantic" with Herrison Ford in case
someone decided for a re-mastering in High Definition... and considered how
better is the director's cut of Amadeus compared with the original release.
Yes sometimes still people seems a bit too still (statues) becouse of the
difficulties in setting the threshold between motion and noise; the first
and the last frame of a scene can't be degrained by algorithm based on the
history (previous frames) but no gosts are visible and the overall
impression is to me very good.
Moreover, the narrow latitude of the video make often people trying to open
the shadows in post with result in an orrible noise floating unrelated on
the pictures below. Also becouse the video noise doesn't inherit the
dimension/motion of the "grain" from the respective color channels, which fo
stocks at CMY, not RGB, anyway.
The secret to me is "moderation". Denoising while tot removing all the
texture completely.
Gianni Maselli
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gen Kiyooka" <email@hidden>
To: "Users QuickTime" <email@hidden>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: new compression formula needed
> On Aug 18, 2005, at 7:57 PM, Ben Waggoner wrote:
> > Gianni,
> >
> > Algosuite is incredible - I've been bugging all the compression
> > tool vendors to look at doing some kind of plugin license deal with
> > Algolith. Much as I like After Effects, it's overkill to do all my
> > preprocessing in.
> >
> While noise-reduction is certainly an important feature for
> compression, our customers are
> asking for less processing at the compression stage, not more. Taken
> to the extreme, if you
> look at the Superbit version of 'The Fifth Element' DVD, the
> compressionist has gone to great
> lengths in fact, to preserve the patterns of noise originating in the
> grain structure of the film stock.
> They employed quantization matrices which are very low Q and the
> overall compression in
> the film is very low.
>
> Personally, my suggestion is to employ noise reduction, in whatever
> form, to the source material
> before it is dropped into the editing timeline, before it is cut,
> before motion graphics are superimposed,
> etc. Temporal noise reduction, even if it is done using very small
> blocks for optical flow, introduces
> its own peculiar artifacts into the video. I mean, why would anyone
> want their perfectly clean
> and noiseless CG titles and motion graphics material subject to a
> temporal averaging filter?
> It's not like the motion compensator in the noise reduction can
> handle rotational movement
> and translucency, so it's obvious that noise reduction is appropirate
> earlier on in the production pipeline.
>
> Only the conversion of archival material stored on older noisier
> formats really requires
> motion compensated noise reduction like catsup over the entire length
> of the program.
>
> Preprocessing is an area of production in it's own right, distinct
> and separate from video compression.
>
> > Ben Waggoner, Interframe Media http://
> > www.interframemedia.com
> > Technology and Strategy for Digital Media
> >
> > My Book: http://www.cmpbooks.com/compression/
> > My Tutorials http://www.classondemand.net/benwaggoner/
> > My Stanford Class http://www.digitalmediaacademy.org/
> > compression.html
> >
> > On Aug 18, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Gianni Maselli wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hello, this is my very first post after many years (unsubsribed
> >> for a lot)
> >>
> >> Afaik Sorenson standard defaults to frame dropping "on" .
> >> If your video is noisy and/or has lot of motion it's possible the
> >> codec
> >> drops frames to mantain the datarate. If I were you I'd try to use
> >> a good 3D
> >> denoiser. Unfortunately on the Mac I don' think there are any free
> >> or open
> >> source solution (as it is for the plethora of Avisynth plugins on
> >> Windows...). You might want to buy a weekly license of Algosuite by
> >> Algolith. It's $59
> >>
> >>
> >
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> >
> > This email sent to email@hidden
> >
> >
>
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