On Mar 15, 2008, at 12:00 PM, Pat Swovelin wrote: On 3/15/2008 7:32 AM, B Yen's hamster got loose on the keyboard and typed ...:
I swam several times a week, and rode my bike 50 miles in the Berkeley and Oakland hills. It was especially on the uphill bike climbs that I really appreciated the groves of trees and panoramic views that the San Francisco Bay has to offer. I bought a Minolta manual-everything camera, and tried to capture images of all of my outdoor experiences, so I could share it with my family and friends in Chicago. I got into backpacking big time, starting when one of my Chicago buddies came out so we could backpack together in King’s Canyon National Park before Christmas. Though I was naïve about winter mountaineering, we luckily had good weather because of the drought. That summer, I went backpacking in Mt. McKinley National Park with a couple of other Berkeley students. I tried to capture the awe of the mountainous environment while backpacking, but the pictures just couldn’t capture the grandeur of it all.
I know someone in New Zealand who is an avid skier/mountaineer/hiker (aka "tramping"). There is some pretty spectacular scenery there, so I want her to capture it for her blog.
I want to recommend a setup to her for QTVR photography.
1) prefer a panorama with complete coverage (zenith/nadir/side)
Meaning 360°x180°, right?
Right.
2) lightweight
Constraint 2) seems to eliminate a tripod w/bracket..or does it? Maybe there is a brilliant lightweight solution out there? Good monopod with a Bo Bracket (even though the page says it's a rare lens Bo hasn't updated the page in over a year and it's a state-of-the-art lens). If the camera is rotated 60° in the bracket it'll fill the zenith and nadir and she won't have to shoot them (there will be a very small piece of the monopod's "foot" in the nadir that she'll have to clone out, I can show her how to do that quite easily).
J. Leung told me the nodal point for my Sigma 8mm/4 is near the "gold ring" on the lens. So, this wood bracket is setup to allow rotation around an axis that bisects the gold ring?
I like this solution because it's so lightweight. These aluminum bracket "contraptions" are dang heavy: Bogen, Kaidan, et al.
Here are possible solutions:
A) digital SLR using P. Nyfeler's innovative flex-bracket You'll notice that he's not shooting with that anymore. Those setups are well over 3 years old.
I did my research by searching on QTVR list this morning..I've been out of it for like 3 years.
I own a D70 with Nikkor 10.5 mm. With this setup you have to shoot zenith and nadir for a full spherical. I made a monopod construction which allows me to shoot zenith (1x) and nadir (2x) I shoot 8 pictures around because it's better to estimate then 6 and gives enough overlap for ghost retouching.
It works quite well to stitch. All my works on wwp are made this way:
And this additinal ones shot at the same spot:
An object movie how it works can be seen here. I use a Canon 300D + Sigma 8mm/4 on a Bogen QTVR head (W/tripod), no need to shoot zenith or nadir.
Are you getting full coverage with that setup? I can't, how can you?
I tilt the camera+lens up like 5 deg (?), so I guess this covers the zenith.
I just shoot it, & I let various experienced QTVR photographers do the stitching (R. Fisher, J. Leung, D. Goldwasser). You can see some results at:
I have my setup in a backpack, & man..is it HEAVY!! I suppose my setup could be lightened with could be used in the above "flex bracket"+monopod. Or you could get a Nodal Ninja 5 head. They're lightweight and a really great head.
Man, expensive! Just like Kaidan.
My contact in NZ is very strapped budgetwise (& so am I).
I don't need the flexibility, if we choose a particular camera+lens (say Canon 450D & Sigma 8mm), then we can hack something out of wood or plastic. Or, just get that "Bo" bracket
I understand a 8Mpixel Canon 350D (with lens) can be obtained for like $450, which is an attractive price-point. Don't even think about getting that body. Wait until April 27th and get a 450D, it's far superior to the 350D. Yes it's more expensive but factor that over the lifetime of the camera and the difference is negligible.
I agree with the effort to make panos (travel & shooting), it's worth to pay for a better camera.
What do you think about the Xti?
I get fatigued with a SLR around my neck. I can really appreciate a P&S camera that attaches to my hip. But, we're looking at a classic engineering tradeoff: performance VS price (& weight)
B) point&shoot camera using bracket You can but the results will suck compared to a DSLR and the workload will be a lot higher because of the amount of images she'll need to shoot (to get full coverage). Add that to the already steep learning curve for someone getting into panoramic photography and it'll make her life hell. What are you going to recommend for stitching software, PTGui (it's the hot tip)?
I think she would probably lean initially towards portability, meaning that a small P&S camera (my Pentax OptioS or Canon G1 I can give her) might be the 1st step. Once she gets comfortable, she can advance to DSLR.
She's technically competent (mathematician, PhD), so she can deal with the software.
Is there another website/URL which shows the state-of-the-art?
C) point&shoot camera using plumbline bob & manual rotation (guessing overlap)
Can someone give me some recommendations for B) & C), like preferable state-of-the-art P&S cameras? Would you prefer those with a "SLR look", e.g.
than a "toyish" P&S camera, since it will have manual control & larger aperture lenses? Although, some "toyish" P&S cameras DO have manual control.
Can I get some URLs for some nice QTVR panos done with P&S cameras?
Have her get a DSLR and a Sigma 8mm f3.5 or she'll just be throwing her money away on cheaper stuff as she tries to shoot quality panoramas. Remember: the bitterness of inferior quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten.
I totally agree.
But, this is work. I think when she's outdoors she wants to relax.
Thanks for any help/advice.
Disclosures: I have no association with any of the products or people mentioned above other than knowing them and/or using those products.
Good luck and maybe we can get together for lunch, or whatever, sometime (I'm over in Canyon Country).
Have a good weekend.
I regularly goto Gorman & Hungry Valley area for amateur astronomy.
I was just there for Comet Holmes & Lunar Eclipse:
I have a satellite-DSL dish on my 4x4van, so I can blog events near-LIVE. (I was doing LIVE pic/video uploads & big video-uploads for the Baja races). I'm going to the China solar-eclipse this Aug. 1, & I might be taking a portable satellite-Internet solution (fits in a suitcase). So, I can stitch & upload an eclipse panorama shortly after the eclipse.
In Egypt '06, I simply uploaded the Raws & let R. Fisher download, stitch, upload the pano (he was in Los Angeles).
I would be interested in getting a group of people to be along the eclipse track (Siberia, China, Mongolia) to shoot panos. One of us would get clear skies. J. Leung was just in China at the beginning of the year.
B Yen
B ¥en
Once Upon A Time, email@hidden wrote:
> Aside from the expense of the stitching software and film, this is the
> cheapest VR rig I have ever found. Total expense: Less than 2 American
> dollars plus film processing.
a nice solution indeed, but i may have you beat... ;>
back in '95 when i was shooting my first pano, i merely took a clock from
the wall and centered my tripod over it using a makeshift plumb-line
(shoelace w/ a pen dangling from the end). of course it was far from
accurate, but i was able to get decent results-- shooting every clock
position (30 degrees).
in fact, the pano even ended up on a commercially released enhanced CD. ;>
of course i know there are those on this list (and surely on helmet's list)
who just shoot freehand w/ no tripod or rig at all and correct everything in
post!
On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:56:18 -0800, Oleg March <email@hidden> wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under impression that the wider the lens is > the more critical camera alignment should be. I think the reason is that wider > lens show objects that are much closer to the camera for proper stitching of > which observance of nodal point alignment is essential. If the camera moves > from position A in first shot to position B for the second shot then the angle > between "A", object and "B" is much greater if the distance from camera to > object is short (such as when shooting with wide lens).
The lens FOV doesn't matter per se. The important thing is the ratio of the closest object to the deviation/uncertainty in the nodal point. If this is 100 or greater, then you'll have a decent stitch; less than this, and you'll probably have to do manual stitching and touch-up..
However, with a wider FOV lens, you would tend to have a wider angular separation between adjacent shots (think 50% overlap), as well as less shots , so less probability for parallax. Parallax is roughly proportional to the the angle between shots, so if you double the angle, you double the angular parallax. Then again, with the same number of pixels in the camera, you have halve the angular pixel resolution, so in the end you'd be misregistered by the same number of pixels.
In a nutshell then, with two handheld shots, the angular parallax due to a moving nodal point is larger with a wider FOV, but the pixel parallax would be about the same. With a wider FOV there's less shots, so there would be a smaller probability of parallax.
-- Ken Turkowski email@hidden Apple Computer, Inc. +1 (408) 974-6699 1 Infinite Loop, MS 302-3VR Cupertino, CA 95014
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Pat Swovelin
Cool Guy @ Large
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