Re: Project architecture

You're completely correct that most (all?) publishing systems have

this problem. And I think you (and others) are right that inserting

special placeholder HTML is not a big problem. But as I asked to

another responder:

When the designer adds a new page, what process takes place after

that? Does a programmer need to be involved (assuming that the new

page is dynamic, but only uses existing WO components)? Does the

application need to be rebuilt and deployed again?

Also, I think you're right on when talking about the whole "HTML"

thing. Unfortunately, that's the way things are right now. So finding

tools to deal with it is the problem at hand.

CSS is nice too, but ultimately doesn't help for structural layout (at

least without also changing the underlying HTML "data"). Admittedly,

layout may change less frequently than text on the page. But it still

does change.

On 3/29/07, Robert Walker <email@hidden> wrote:

I think it's also noteworthy to mention that WO is not unique in this at

all.  You would have exactly the same issues with anything based on J2EE.

JSPs are not dissimilar to WO Templates.  Even some scripting solutions like

Ruby on Rails are not immune from this.  You're still going to have

programmer specific custom tags within the UI that a pure web designer will

have to work around.

I personally think the real problem is not that HTML is for designers, but

that designers are having to deal with HTML "code."  If the web was build by

designers instead of programmers then designers would not ever see the HTML

code.

Designers working in Adobe InDesign never see, or care anything about, how

InDesign keeps track of formatting text and graphics on a page, nor should

they.  On the contrary a UI programmer cares very much about how the system

organizes windows and views within those windows.  They need to know

specifically how to interact with those objects from within their code.

So this is not IMHO a failure in any way of WebObjects or any other

solution, it's a failure of the basic design of the Web in general.  So we

do the best we can by building good communication and cross training between

coders and designer to work around this fundamental flaw.

CSS is helping, but it's still to much for the programmer and not enough for

the designer, this is getting better all the time as the design tools

improve.  A Web build by the likes of Adobe would have made it a much

difference place than it is today.  Designer wouldn't be dealing with code

and there would be a much more distinct divide between web "pages" and web

"applications."

On Mar 29, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Webobjects Developer wrote:

Using WO, how does one separate the web designer from the programmer?

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