Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? Notes from the dark sideŠ..
Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? Notes from the dark sideŠ..
- Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? Notes from the dark sideŠ..
- From: Thomas Lianza <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 22:18:27 +0000
- Thread-topic: Apple Keynote not color managed? Notes from the dark sideŠ..
A few years ago (actually more than a few) Microsoft had a team that was
called "rich media". One of the best kept secrets about the work of this
team was the fact that all microsoft office applications were ICC color
managed. You could bring a profiled image into Excel if you wanted to
and it would display based upon the set up of the display profile. Word
and powerpoint were equally color managed, but when you hit the print
button, things could go badly based upon the print vendors interface to
the OS. The one weak point was handling of spot colors in logos. You had
to create all of that as a bit map with a profile attached. Naturally,
things got real ugly as you changed the size and resolution of graphic
headers for varying display conditions. Looking at the popularity of the
Apple mobile products, it's not hard to see why they have de-emphasized CM
on the platform and seem to have focused on sRGB. It is just a reality of
the platform focus.
Regards,
Tom Lianza.
On 1/8/13 1:40 PM, "Don Hutcheson" <email@hidden> wrote:
>PowerPoint for Mac has been nicely color-managed for some years. I
>bought the first version of Keynote but quit using it after a week.
>PowerPoint is adequate and a lot easier to share.
>
>........................................................
>Don Hutcheson
>HutchColor, LLC
>87 Brass Castle Rd
>Washington, NJ 07882, USA
>office: (908) 689 7403
>cell: (908) 500 0341
>skype: hutchcolor
>........................................................
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Jan 08, 2013, at 13:17 , email@hidden wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Martin Orpen)
>> 2. Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Dana Rasmussen)
>> 3. Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Andrew Rodney)
>> 4. Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? (edmund ronald)
>> 5. Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Andrew Rodney)
>> 6. Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Steve Upton)
>> 7. Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Andrew Rodney)
>> 8. RE: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Matt Beals)
>> 9. RE: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Roger Breton)
>> 10. Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Claas Bickeböller)
>> 11. Re: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Matt Beals)
>> 12. RE: Apple Keynote not color managed? (Matt Beals)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 20:01:46 +0000
>> From: Martin Orpen <email@hidden>
>> To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List"
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> On 7 Jan 2013, at 18:47, Andrew Rodney <email@hidden> wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, I'm running 10.8.3
>>
>> When are you going to give Apple the go ahead to release it?
>>
>> --
>> Martin Orpen
>> Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 12:08:30 -0800
>> From: Dana Rasmussen <email@hidden>
>> To: email@hidden
>> Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>>> As shocking as this seems, I can't find another explanation. Images
>>>imported into Apple's Keynote do not seem to be color managed. The do
>>>not match the same image in Preview, Safari or Photoshop (the later
>>>three matching perfectly). These are TIFFs with an embedded sRGB
>>>profile. On a wide gamut display, they look pretty awful (over
>>>saturated) in Keynote. Sorry if this new discovery is well know around
>>>here but this begs the question: Apple, what are you thinking?
>>>
>>> FWIW, I'm running 10.8.3 and Keynote 09 (5.0.3)
>>>
>>> Also under 10.8, what's up with the dock icon? They too don't appear
>>>to be color managed expect for the Finder icon there.
>>>
>>> Andrew Rodney
>>> http://www.digitaldog.net/
>> Is any flavor of Powepoint colormanaged? For Win or Mac?
>> I am not surprised given what these applications are designed to be
>>used for.
>> Dana Rasmussen
>> Seattle
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:24:23 -0700
>> From: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
>> To: "email@hidden List"
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Or just confirm or deny my findings.
>>
>> Andrew Rodney
>> http://www.digitaldog.net/
>>
>> On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:44 PM, Lars Borg <email@hidden> wrote:
>>
>>> Edmund,
>>>
>>> Right, it's far from trivial. It would be great if you could
>>>contribute to a solution to the problem.
>>>
>>> Lars
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:39:35 +0100
>> From: edmund ronald <email@hidden>
>> To: Lars Borg <email@hidden>
>> Cc: "email@hidden"
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAJe_MaiPBupAr10RwW=email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Lars,
>>
>> We have been down this road, and I have made precise and constructive
>> suggestions a bunch of times.
>>
>> As regards core OS routines, my suggestion to improve color management
>> in user apps has been that we design an OS method such that one can
>> see immediately which transforms (profiles, intents) have been
>> cumulatively applied to an image, or propagated through a file. A
>> programmer will never notice from a *look* at his screen which
>> transforms are being called.
>>
>> You can of course say that this is now *impossible* and it may well
>> be, but then why stick to a design which just cannot be implemented
>> and verified except by the most specialized of specialists?
>>
>> We have run through years of bug after bug in the profiled inkjet
>> printing field in Mac OS, please don't tell me this isn't true because
>> everyone here even including Andrew Rodney has noticed it, with
>> profiled printing becoming essentially irreproducible for a period,
>> exactly because no diagnostic facilities were ever embedded in the OS,
>> because none were ever envisaged at design time by the ICC, in the
>> interest of no vendor ever ever ever being *provably* designated as
>> responsible for a color management failure.
>>
>> Edmund
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Lars Borg <email@hidden> wrote:
>>> Edmund,
>>>
>>> Right, it's far from trivial. It would be great if you could
>>>contribute to a
>>> solution to the problem.
>>>
>>> Lars
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:43:24 -0700
>> From: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
>> To: "email@hidden List"
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> On Jan 7, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Dana Rasmussen <email@hidden> wrote:
>>
>>> Is any flavor of Powepoint colormanaged? For Win or Mac?
>>
>> Indeed, my copy of Powerpoint for Mac (2011) DOES preview the sRGB
>>document correctly like Preview, Safari, Photoshop etc. Keynote doesn't.
>>
>> Andrew Rodney
>> http://www.digitaldog.net/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 14:12:32 -0800
>> From: Steve Upton <email@hidden>
>> To: "email@hidden List"
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:43 PM, Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Dana Rasmussen <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is any flavor of Powepoint colormanaged? For Win or Mac?
>>>
>>> Indeed, my copy of Powerpoint for Mac (2011) DOES preview the sRGB
>>>document correctly like Preview, Safari, Photoshop etc. Keynote
>>>doesn't.
>>
>> I'm pretty certain that Keynote *used* to color manage properly, though
>>it might depend on the image format used.
>>
>> perhaps it's dropped off the radar over the years and as Keynote came
>>out on iOS (which is certainly not going to be color managed)
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 15:53:07 -0700
>> From: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
>> To: "email@hidden List"
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> On Jan 7, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Steve Upton <email@hidden> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm pretty certain that Keynote *used* to color manage properly,
>>>though it might depend on the image format used.
>>
>> That's one reason why I asked here as I don't recall this behavior
>>either. I've been using Keynote for years. On a wide gamut display with
>>sRGB tagged data, the preview is way off. I think this might have
>>happened with 10.8, which I recently upgrade on this Mac.
>>
>> I exported the show as a PowerPoint presentation, it shows exactly as
>>it should in PP (the little thumbnails don't but who cares)? At least
>>Microsoft's presentation software is working but I'd sure prefer
>>Keynote.
>>
>> Seems odd that Preview would show the images correctly but not Keynote.
>>Odd too that the two software teams may not be talking to each other
>>about this <g>
>>
>> Andrew Rodney
>> http://www.digitaldog.net/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 16:42:33 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Matt Beals <email@hidden>
>> To: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
>> Cc: email@hidden
>> Subject: RE: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> I don't have keynote so I cannot confirm this but what we used to do
>>for Publisher was to save the image out of PhotoShop as an EPS with I
>>believe and 8bit TIFF preview. This prevented Windows GDI from mucking
>>around with the separations for that image. Your mileage may vary.
>>
>> Matt Beals
>> Consultant
>> Callas Partner/Trainer
>> Enfocus Certified Trainer
>> Markzware Recognized Trainer
>> (206) 618-2537 - Mobile
>> mailto:email@hidden
>>
>> Come visit me at:
>> http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
>> http://www.mattbeals.com
>> http://blog.mattbeals.com
>>
>> Friends don't let friends write HTML email
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 7, 2013 10:47am, "Andrew Rodney"
>><email@hidden> said:
>>
>>> As shocking as this seems, I can't find another explanation. Images
>>>imported into
>>> Apple's Keynote do not seem to be color managed. The do not match the
>>>same image
>>> in Preview, Safari or Photoshop (the later three matching perfectly).
>>>These are
>>> TIFFs with an embedded sRGB profile. On a wide gamut display, they
>>>look pretty
>>> awful (over saturated) in Keynote. Sorry if this new discovery is well
>>>know around
>>> here but this begs the question: Apple, what are you thinking?
>>>
>>> FWIW, I'm running 10.8.3 and Keynote 09 (5.0.3)
>>>
>>> Also under 10.8, what's up with the dock icon? They too don't appear
>>>to be color
>>> managed expect for the Finder icon there.
>>>
>>> Andrew Rodney
>>> http://www.digitaldog.net/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>
>>>.com
>>>
>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 20:38:21 -0500
>> From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
>> To: email@hidden
>> Subject: RE: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <006f01cded40$d7d283c0$87778b40$@videotron.ca>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> You ARE the Swiss Army knife of color management ;-)
>>
>> Best / Roger
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden
>> [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden] On
>> Behalf Of Matt Beals
>> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 7:43 PM
>> To: Andrew Rodney
>> Cc: email@hidden
>> Subject: RE: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>>
>> I don't have keynote so I cannot confirm this but what we used to do for
>> Publisher was to save the image out of PhotoShop as an EPS with I
>>believe
>> and 8bit TIFF preview. This prevented Windows GDI from mucking around
>>with
>> the separations for that image. Your mileage may vary.
>>
>> Matt Beals
>> Consultant
>> Callas Partner/Trainer
>> Enfocus Certified Trainer
>> Markzware Recognized Trainer
>> (206) 618-2537 - Mobile
>> mailto:email@hidden
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 18:26:37 +0100
>> From: Claas Bickeböller <email@hidden>
>> To: "email@hidden List"
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Keynote 5.1.1 (09) on OS X 10.6.8 makes use of source profiles.
>> I never checked in detail how the transformation to the display profile
>>is done
>> but there is a clear difference between JPGs tagged with sRGB and
>>ProPhotoRGB having the same device values.
>>
>> If this behaviour is different in newer OS X versions I'd also
>>appreciate if Apple would change this.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Claas
>>
>> Am 07.01.2013 um 21:43 schrieb Andrew Rodney:
>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Dana Rasmussen <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is any flavor of Powepoint colormanaged? For Win or Mac?
>>>
>>> Indeed, my copy of Powerpoint for Mac (2011) DOES preview the sRGB
>>>document correctly like Preview, Safari, Photoshop etc. Keynote
>>>doesn't.
>>>
>>> Andrew Rodney
>>> http://www.digitaldog.net/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>
>>>ller.name
>>>
>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 10:16:46 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Matt Beals <email@hidden>
>> To: Dana Rasmussen <email@hidden>
>> Cc: email@hidden
>> Subject: Re: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Back when there was a Windows GDI, I believe it's been separated out or
>>at least renamed to WCS, it was all sRGB and Publisher/Windows would
>>convert everything to sRGB. The mystery meat CMYK profile was some
>>abomination of SWOP. I believe I have the SWOP profile somewhere around
>>here as well as some samples of the separations if anyone is interested.
>>I haven't paid too much attention to in Windows 7/8 since I encourage
>>everyone to leave everything as RGB (sRGB to be safe and specific) on
>>any Windows version.
>>
>> But for the Mac side of things I can't say specifically. Just make
>>everything sRGB (as bad as that sounds) and work from there. But now
>>that I think about it a bit there was the whole "colormatch RGB" thing
>>that keeps gnawing in the back of my mind as a default space for Mac OS
>>X.
>>
>> At any rate, assume it's not, convert to sRGB and expect moderate
>>success.
>>
>> Matt Beals
>> Consultant
>> Callas Partner/Trainer
>> Enfocus Certified Trainer
>> Markzware Recognized Trainer
>> (206) 618-2537 - Mobile
>> mailto:email@hidden
>>
>> Come visit me at:
>> http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
>> http://www.mattbeals.com
>> http://blog.mattbeals.com
>>
>> Friends don't let friends write HTML email
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 7, 2013 12:08pm, "Dana Rasmussen"
>><email@hidden> said:
>>
>>>
>>>> As shocking as this seems, I can't find another explanation. Images
>>>>imported into
>>>> Apple's Keynote do not seem to be color managed. The do not match the
>>>>same image
>>>> in Preview, Safari or Photoshop (the later three matching perfectly).
>>>>These are
>>>> TIFFs with an embedded sRGB profile. On a wide gamut display, they
>>>>look pretty
>>>> awful (over saturated) in Keynote. Sorry if this new discovery is
>>>>well know
>>>> around here but this begs the question: Apple, what are you thinking?
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, I'm running 10.8.3 and Keynote 09 (5.0.3)
>>>>
>>>> Also under 10.8, what's up with the dock icon? They too don't appear
>>>>to be color
>>>> managed expect for the Finder icon there.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Rodney
>>>> http://www.digitaldog.net/
>>> Is any flavor of Powepoint colormanaged? For Win or Mac?
>>> I am not surprised given what these applications are designed to be
>>>used for.
>>> Dana Rasmussen
>>> Seattle
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>
>>>.com
>>>
>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 10:17:30 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Matt Beals <email@hidden>
>> To: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
>> Cc: email@hidden
>> Subject: RE: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Thanks! Always nice to be able to contribute after having so many
>>people help me.
>>
>> Matt Beals
>> Consultant
>> Callas Partner/Trainer
>> Enfocus Certified Trainer
>> Markzware Recognized Trainer
>> (206) 618-2537 - Mobile
>> mailto:email@hidden
>>
>> Come visit me at:
>> http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
>> http://www.mattbeals.com
>> http://blog.mattbeals.com
>>
>> Friends don't let friends write HTML email
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 7, 2013 5:38pm, "Roger Breton" <email@hidden>
>>said:
>>
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>> You ARE the Swiss Army knife of color management ;-)
>>>
>>> Best / Roger
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden
>>> [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden] On
>>> Behalf Of Matt Beals
>>> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 7:43 PM
>>> To: Andrew Rodney
>>> Cc: email@hidden
>>> Subject: RE: Apple Keynote not color managed?
>>>
>>> I don't have keynote so I cannot confirm this but what we used to do
>>>for
>>> Publisher was to save the image out of PhotoShop as an EPS with I
>>>believe
>>> and 8bit TIFF preview. This prevented Windows GDI from mucking around
>>>with
>>> the separations for that image. Your mileage may vary.
>>>
>>> Matt Beals
>>> Consultant
>>> Callas Partner/Trainer
>>> Enfocus Certified Trainer
>>> Markzware Recognized Trainer
>>> (206) 618-2537 - Mobile
>>> mailto:email@hidden
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>
>>>.com
>>>
>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
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