Re: [Fed-Talk] Fed-talk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 125
Re: [Fed-Talk] Fed-talk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 125
- Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] Fed-talk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 125
- From: "Brooks, Oscar (KSC-NEC30)" <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 06:57:37 -0500
- Acceptlanguage: en-US
- Thread-topic: Fed-talk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 125
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Subject: Fed-talk Digest, Vol 9, Issue 125
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: my Mac Pro is obsolete :( (Jeff Plum)
2. Re: my Mac Pro is obsolete :( (Jason T. Bracy)
3. Re: my Mac Pro is obsolete :( (Roy Mendelssohn)
4. Re: my Mac Pro is obsolete :( (Jason T. Bracy)
5. Re: my Mac Pro is obsolete :( (Jonathan E. Hardis)
6. Re: my Mac Pro is obsolete :( (William Cerniuk)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:03:00 -0400
From: Jeff Plum <email@hidden>
To: "Jason T.Bracy" <email@hidden>
Cc: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Jason, we are using the Promise raids with ActiveSan. ActiveStorage installed the MDCs on our Xsan. The configuration with the ActiveSan and Promise Raids is a supported architecture. It was pretty close to a plug and play to install the ActiveSan MDCs. The ActiveSan price is better than buying a couple of servers and building the MDCs yourself.
The benefit of the M330 is 12 Stornext licenses (for Windows and Linux), two servers and the MetaData RAID. The ActiveSan is two servers and two licenses.
Jeff
On Jul 11, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Jason T. Bracy wrote:
> $25,000 for the MDC, plus $45,000 to replace our 80TB of storage since only
> their RAIDs are qualified... I'd have more luck getting a Quantum M330 for
> $60,000 approved since I could still use our Promise RAIDs (and that
> likelihood is about 0%) - and Quantum is a known entity here, Active is not.
>
> The Mac mini is definitely the cheapest solution and because they are cheap,
> the lack of redundancy is mitigated by having 2 or more servers... (I could
> get 20 for the price of the Active or Quantum solution!) I just hate that
> our 4 year old servers are already obsolete with no upgrade path, since most
> Enterprise customers are - I assume - on a 5 year or more replacement cycle
> for Server class hardware.
>
> --
>
> Jason T. Bracy | SAIC
> Systems Administrator | SAIC Creative
> email@hidden | saic.com
>
>
>
>
>> From: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>
>> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:11:09 -0700
>> To: Jason Bracy <email@hidden>
>> Cc: Marvin Gibson <email@hidden>, Todd Heberlein
>> <email@hidden>, "email@hidden"
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
>>
>>
>> On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:04 AM, Bracy, Jason T. wrote:
>>
>>> Dropping the 2008 Xserve is what annoys me, as there is no replacement path.
>>
>> http://getactivestorage.com/products.php
>>
>> -Roy
>>
>>
>> **********************
>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S.
>> Government or NOAA."
>> **********************
>> Roy Mendelssohn
>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
>> NOAA/NMFS
>> Environmental Research Division
>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>>
>> e-mail: email@hidden (Note new e-mail address)
>> voice: (831)-648-9029
>> fax: (831)-648-8440
>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>>
>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
>> "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -MLK Jr.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Fed-talk mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:25:13 -0400
From: "Jason T. Bracy" <email@hidden>
To: Jeff Plum <email@hidden>
Cc: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
Message-ID: <CC234B59.1BEDF%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
That's good to know. According to the ActiveSan website, only ActiveRAID is
certified... Though they do say that other storage may work...
--
Jason T. Bracy | SAIC
Systems Administrator | SAIC Creative
email@hidden | saic.com
> From: Jeff Plum <email@hidden>
> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:03:00 -0400
> To: Jason Bracy <email@hidden>
> Cc: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>, "email@hidden"
> <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
>
> Jason, we are using the Promise raids with ActiveSan. ActiveStorage installed
> the MDCs on our Xsan. The configuration with the ActiveSan and Promise Raids
> is a supported architecture. It was pretty close to a plug and play to
> install the ActiveSan MDCs. The ActiveSan price is better than buying a
> couple of servers and building the MDCs yourself.
>
> The benefit of the M330 is 12 Stornext licenses (for Windows and Linux), two
> servers and the MetaData RAID. The ActiveSan is two servers and two licenses.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Jason T. Bracy wrote:
>
>> $25,000 for the MDC, plus $45,000 to replace our 80TB of storage since only
>> their RAIDs are qualified... I'd have more luck getting a Quantum M330 for
>> $60,000 approved since I could still use our Promise RAIDs (and that
>> likelihood is about 0%) - and Quantum is a known entity here, Active is not.
>>
>> The Mac mini is definitely the cheapest solution and because they are cheap,
>> the lack of redundancy is mitigated by having 2 or more servers... (I could
>> get 20 for the price of the Active or Quantum solution!) I just hate that
>> our 4 year old servers are already obsolete with no upgrade path, since most
>> Enterprise customers are - I assume - on a 5 year or more replacement cycle
>> for Server class hardware.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jason T. Bracy | SAIC
>> Systems Administrator | SAIC Creative
>> email@hidden | saic.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:11:09 -0700
>>> To: Jason Bracy <email@hidden>
>>> Cc: Marvin Gibson <email@hidden>, Todd Heberlein
>>> <email@hidden>, "email@hidden"
>>> <email@hidden>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:04 AM, Bracy, Jason T. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dropping the 2008 Xserve is what annoys me, as there is no replacement
>>>> path.
>>>
>>> http://getactivestorage.com/products.php
>>>
>>> -Roy
>>>
>>>
>>> **********************
>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S.
>>> Government or NOAA."
>>> **********************
>>> Roy Mendelssohn
>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
>>> NOAA/NMFS
>>> Environmental Research Division
>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>>>
>>> e-mail: email@hidden (Note new e-mail address)
>>> voice: (831)-648-9029
>>> fax: (831)-648-8440
>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>>>
>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
>>> "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -MLK
>>> Jr.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Fed-talk mailing list (email@hidden)
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>
>> This email sent to email@hidden
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:33:27 -0700
From: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>
To: "Jason T. Bracy" <email@hidden>
Cc: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
BTW- I was neither endorsing nor not endorsing Active Storage (though we do have a number of their RAIDS and have been happy with them). The only point is that there is an upgrade path even though the Xserve and XRaids have been phased out. But otherwise, as always YMMV.
-Roy
On Jul 11, 2012, at 12:25 PM, Jason T. Bracy wrote:
> That's good to know. According to the ActiveSan website, only ActiveRAID is
> certified... Though they do say that other storage may work...
>
> --
>
> Jason T. Bracy | SAIC
> Systems Administrator | SAIC Creative
> email@hidden | saic.com
>
>
>
>
>> From: Jeff Plum <email@hidden>
>> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:03:00 -0400
>> To: Jason Bracy <email@hidden>
>> Cc: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>, "email@hidden"
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
>>
>> Jason, we are using the Promise raids with ActiveSan. ActiveStorage installed
>> the MDCs on our Xsan. The configuration with the ActiveSan and Promise Raids
>> is a supported architecture. It was pretty close to a plug and play to
>> install the ActiveSan MDCs. The ActiveSan price is better than buying a
>> couple of servers and building the MDCs yourself.
>>
>> The benefit of the M330 is 12 Stornext licenses (for Windows and Linux), two
>> servers and the MetaData RAID. The ActiveSan is two servers and two licenses.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 11, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Jason T. Bracy wrote:
>>
>>> $25,000 for the MDC, plus $45,000 to replace our 80TB of storage since only
>>> their RAIDs are qualified... I'd have more luck getting a Quantum M330 for
>>> $60,000 approved since I could still use our Promise RAIDs (and that
>>> likelihood is about 0%) - and Quantum is a known entity here, Active is not.
>>>
>>> The Mac mini is definitely the cheapest solution and because they are cheap,
>>> the lack of redundancy is mitigated by having 2 or more servers... (I could
>>> get 20 for the price of the Active or Quantum solution!) I just hate that
>>> our 4 year old servers are already obsolete with no upgrade path, since most
>>> Enterprise customers are - I assume - on a 5 year or more replacement cycle
>>> for Server class hardware.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Jason T. Bracy | SAIC
>>> Systems Administrator | SAIC Creative
>>> email@hidden | saic.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>
>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:11:09 -0700
>>>> To: Jason Bracy <email@hidden>
>>>> Cc: Marvin Gibson <email@hidden>, Todd Heberlein
>>>> <email@hidden>, "email@hidden"
>>>> <email@hidden>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:04 AM, Bracy, Jason T. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dropping the 2008 Xserve is what annoys me, as there is no replacement
>>>>> path.
>>>>
>>>> http://getactivestorage.com/products.php
>>>>
>>>> -Roy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **********************
>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S.
>>>> Government or NOAA."
>>>> **********************
>>>> Roy Mendelssohn
>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
>>>> NOAA/NMFS
>>>> Environmental Research Division
>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>>>>
>>>> e-mail: email@hidden (Note new e-mail address)
>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029
>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440
>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>>>>
>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
>>>> "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -MLK
>>>> Jr.
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Fed-talk mailing list (email@hidden)
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>
>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>
>
**********************
"The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S. Government or NOAA."
**********************
Roy Mendelssohn
Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
NOAA/NMFS
Environmental Research Division
Southwest Fisheries Science Center
1352 Lighthouse Avenue
Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
e-mail: email@hidden (Note new e-mail address)
voice: (831)-648-9029
fax: (831)-648-8440
www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
"From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
"the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -MLK Jr.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:38:29 -0400
From: "Jason T. Bracy" <email@hidden>
To: Taylor Armstrong <email@hidden>
Cc: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
Message-ID: <CC234E75.1BEE3%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I¹ve spoken to Quantum. According to the sales rep (grain of salt...) A
StorNext MDC will be able to invisibly take over from an Xsan MDC. I¹d like
to see it happen before I trust my data, but that¹s what they say...
On a similar note, while Xsan 2.3 and StorNext 4 are interoperable, they did
say that they are usually a version behind Apple. So when Mountain Lion
comes out with Xsan 3 it will not be compatible with the StorNext MDC...
I¹m definitely leaning toward the MacMini as a solution, if for nothing more
than peace of mind that the SAN versions are compatible.
We did think about just starting over with a different SAN vendor, but the
Apple Xsan has been so rock solid and is so much less expensive than the
other options out there that we could not justify going with anything else.
--
Jason T. Bracy | SAIC
Systems Administrator | SAIC Creative
email@hidden | saic.com
From: Taylor Armstrong <email@hidden>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 14:22:48 -0400
To: Jason Bracy <email@hidden>
Cc: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>, "email@hidden"
<email@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
Just FYI - their system is based on Quantum's StorNext, which is what Apple
OEM'd to produce xSAN. You should be able to get StorNext licenses for
less, although how much less is another question. Our StorNext install is
running on standard Dell 1U boxes for MDC's. Not saying I WOULD, but you
could potentially even re-use your xServes running RedHat and re-use them as
StorNext MDC's. Your data should be fine that way... we're running Promise
vtracks on our StorNext install - I just don't know if you could cleanly
import an existing array, but certainly worth a phone call (we were not
running xsan previously, went directly with StorNext for reasons too
convoluted to get into here)
Taylor
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Jason T. Bracy <email@hidden>
wrote:
> $25,000 for the MDC, plus $45,000 to replace our 80TB of storage since only
> their RAIDs are qualified... I'd have more luck getting a Quantum M330 for
> $60,000 approved since I could still use our Promise RAIDs (and that
> likelihood is about 0%) - and Quantum is a known entity here, Active is not.
>
> The Mac mini is definitely the cheapest solution and because they are cheap,
> the lack of redundancy is mitigated by having 2 or more servers... (I could
> get 20 for the price of the Active or Quantum solution!) I just hate that
> our 4 year old servers are already obsolete with no upgrade path, since most
> Enterprise customers are - I assume - on a 5 year or more replacement cycle
> for Server class hardware.
>
> --
>
> Jason T. Bracy | SAIC
> Systems Administrator | SAIC Creative
> email@hidden | saic.com <http://saic.com>
>
>
>
>
>> > From: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>
>> > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:11:09 -0700
>> > To: Jason Bracy <email@hidden>
>> > Cc: Marvin Gibson <email@hidden>, Todd Heberlein
>> > <email@hidden>, "email@hidden"
>> > <email@hidden>
>> > Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:04 AM, Bracy, Jason T. wrote:
>> >
>>> >> Dropping the 2008 Xserve is what annoys me, as there is no replacement
>>> path.
>> >
>> > http://getactivestorage.com/products.php
>> >
>> > -Roy
>> >
>> >
>> > **********************
>> > "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S.
>> > Government or NOAA."
>> > **********************
>> > Roy Mendelssohn
>> > Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
>> > NOAA/NMFS
>> > Environmental Research Division
>> > Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>> > 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
>> > Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>> >
>> > e-mail: email@hidden (Note new e-mail address)
>> > voice: (831)-648-9029 <tel:(831)-648-9029>
>> > fax: (831)-648-8440 <tel:(831)-648-8440>
>> > www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>> >
>> > "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
>> > "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
>> > "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -MLK
>> Jr.
>> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Fed-talk mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:50:44 -0400
From: "Jonathan E. Hardis" <email@hidden>
To: Fed Talk <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
This isn't quite true. A computer becomes obsolete when the vendor no longer supports (that is, provides patches for) the OS — at least according to our internal security policy. So, given Apple's historical but informal and undocumented policy of providing patches for MacOS X versions N and (N-1), a computer that runs Lion but not Mountain Lion will become obsolete when the successor to Mountain Lion comes out. That should be in about a year.
- Jonathan
On Jul 11, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Link, Peter R. wrote:
> It's really not obsolete since it can still run the currently shipping OS (10.7) as well as everything you currently run. I also imagine it's still more powerful than many currently shipping Macs and will give you more than adequate usage for at least a few more years. Who knows, maybe you'll be able to replace the motherboard with something newer.
>
> A computer becomes obsolete when all it's good for is a door stop…..
>
> On Jul 11, 2012, at 8:28 AM, Todd Heberlein wrote:
>
>> Alas, it looks official now. My Mac Pro, which has served as my primary workstation for years but still works quite well, is now officially obsolete. It won't support Mountain Lion.
>>
>> Here is the command you can run from your Terminal to check if your Mac Pro (and other systems?) will support Mountain Lion
>>
>> $ ioreg -l -p IODeviceTree | grep firmware-abi
>>
>> A result with <"EFI32"> in it indicates if you are obsolete.
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 22:06:03 -0400
From: William Cerniuk <email@hidden>
To: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>
Cc: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Has anyone tried the thunderbolt to fibre for connecting the fibre promise to say a Mac mini?
http://www.promise.com/storage/raid_series.aspx?region=en-global&m=192&rsn1=40&rsn3=49
I would also wonder if we are not going to see hot fail over or auto-clustering capability between minis on thunderbolt some day in the newer future
--
R/Wm.
On Jul 11, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden> wrote:
> BTW- I was neither endorsing nor not endorsing Active Storage (though we do have a number of their RAIDS and have been happy with them). The only point is that there is an upgrade path even though the Xserve and XRaids have been phased out. But otherwise, as always YMMV.
>
> -Roy
>
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2012, at 12:25 PM, Jason T. Bracy wrote:
>
>> That's good to know. According to the ActiveSan website, only ActiveRAID is
>> certified... Though they do say that other storage may work...
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jason T. Bracy | SAIC
>> Systems Administrator | SAIC Creative
>> email@hidden | saic.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Jeff Plum <email@hidden>
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:03:00 -0400
>>> To: Jason Bracy <email@hidden>
>>> Cc: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>, "email@hidden"
>>> <email@hidden>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
>>>
>>> Jason, we are using the Promise raids with ActiveSan. ActiveStorage installed
>>> the MDCs on our Xsan. The configuration with the ActiveSan and Promise Raids
>>> is a supported architecture. It was pretty close to a plug and play to
>>> install the ActiveSan MDCs. The ActiveSan price is better than buying a
>>> couple of servers and building the MDCs yourself.
>>>
>>> The benefit of the M330 is 12 Stornext licenses (for Windows and Linux), two
>>> servers and the MetaData RAID. The ActiveSan is two servers and two licenses.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 11, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Jason T. Bracy wrote:
>>>
>>>> $25,000 for the MDC, plus $45,000 to replace our 80TB of storage since only
>>>> their RAIDs are qualified... I'd have more luck getting a Quantum M330 for
>>>> $60,000 approved since I could still use our Promise RAIDs (and that
>>>> likelihood is about 0%) - and Quantum is a known entity here, Active is not.
>>>>
>>>> The Mac mini is definitely the cheapest solution and because they are cheap,
>>>> the lack of redundancy is mitigated by having 2 or more servers... (I could
>>>> get 20 for the price of the Active or Quantum solution!) I just hate that
>>>> our 4 year old servers are already obsolete with no upgrade path, since most
>>>> Enterprise customers are - I assume - on a 5 year or more replacement cycle
>>>> for Server class hardware.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Jason T. Bracy | SAIC
>>>> Systems Administrator | SAIC Creative
>>>> email@hidden | saic.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: Roy Mendelssohn <email@hidden>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:11:09 -0700
>>>>> To: Jason Bracy <email@hidden>
>>>>> Cc: Marvin Gibson <email@hidden>, Todd Heberlein
>>>>> <email@hidden>, "email@hidden"
>>>>> <email@hidden>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Fed-Talk] my Mac Pro is obsolete :(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:04 AM, Bracy, Jason T. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dropping the 2008 Xserve is what annoys me, as there is no replacement
>>>>>> path.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://getactivestorage.com/products.php
>>>>>
>>>>> -Roy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **********************
>>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S.
>>>>> Government or NOAA."
>>>>> **********************
>>>>> Roy Mendelssohn
>>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
>>>>> NOAA/NMFS
>>>>> Environmental Research Division
>>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
>>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
>>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>>>>>
>>>>> e-mail: email@hidden (Note new e-mail address)
>>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029
>>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440
>>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>>>>>
>>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
>>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
>>>>> "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -MLK
>>>>> Jr.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>> Fed-talk mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>
>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>
> **********************
> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S. Government or NOAA."
> **********************
> Roy Mendelssohn
> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
> NOAA/NMFS
> Environmental Research Division
> Southwest Fisheries Science Center
> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue
> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097
>
> e-mail: email@hidden (Note new e-mail address)
> voice: (831)-648-9029
> fax: (831)-648-8440
> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
>
> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected"
> "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -MLK Jr.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Fed-talk mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
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