November 2007 - Bluetooth-dev

Re: More than one bluetooth device?
by Bubba Giles 02 Nov '07

02 Nov '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com cannot get the mac to recognize the dongle as a bluetooth transceiver. jason _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… Questions: 1) by "limited Bluetooth mode", does MSoft simply mean that the OS isn't recognizing the bluetooth transceiver? Or is this part of the bluetooth standard? 2) Does the mac not recognize it because it's not on a list of supported bt transceivers? Is there a list somewhere of which dongles the mac does recognize, and perhaps a roadmap of their intentions in this area? i suspect it operates in a special mode and Microsoft's software gives it the kick it needs to exit that mode and operate as a normal Bluetooth host controller once the OS is fully booted. A similar thing happens on the Mac with it's built in hardware. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: More than one bluetooth device?
by Joseph Kelly 01 Nov '07

01 Nov '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Nov 1, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Daniel Birns wrote: Joe K. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… Questions: 1) by "limited Bluetooth mode", does MSoft simply mean that the OS isn't recognizing the bluetooth transceiver? Or is this part of the bluetooth standard? 2) Does the mac not recognize it because it's not on a list of supported bt transceivers? Is there a list somewhere of which dongles the mac does recognize, and perhaps a roadmap of their intentions in this area? Going out on a limb, I would guess that if it complies with the USB Wireless Controller spec, and presents itself as such to the OS, it might just work. But it sounds like you're doing some extra special Windows kinds of things to get it to match w/ the Windows bluetooth driver in the first place. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: More than one bluetooth device?
by Daniel Birns 01 Nov '07

01 Nov '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=7Sn/twKw6mv+aSgN6C0jqIW3D6B1eGYb7aRVhZd67dQ=; b=su0mj3T13BuWN5b6Bt1VA7QisVoCIB5qpa8AMnF5KIS9ZdHi+EVCxsx+sjPqTB0CdI3mVBm8NhHTngKE5mgKcpmD0UIJurwW1yTBOlg6mslUDjoF+iOXkR35e49DDZkYYqBX1ZdrlIABi27tnjBFbHZoqm10doLrw6pj1OcaFEs= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=aSLdA3uZ7pQFydqahrAZUgP6ifxFeWF3hVCIm4+53+Kkt4yOlRcDjXZg7r5WwqYKqWyqjJRhRFdSgAUictuKCrqbYe/ao70i25nvSsD/T0QEl4q8/LMp26rfHT5JQaCvDmp1w9nabjWbw1ZGGtxc5NPs1s/aAM7tXQ1i1MzhT+0= I've unpackaged the Microsoft mouse and the results are interesting. This product consists of a mouse and pre-paired bt dongle. Here's what I've discovered: --Daniel Daniel, Tim. On 31 Oct 2007, at 23:11, Daniel Birns wrote: Hi Tim, --Daniel On Oct 31, 2007, at 3:59 PM, Tim Hewett wrote: Daniel, Tim. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… First: from USB prober: Device VendorID/ProductID: 0x045E/0x0713 (Microsoft Corporation) Product String: 2 "Microsoft\256 Wireless Notebook Presenter Mouse 8000" My purpose here is *not* to use this device, but rather to try to understand the current state of the bluetooth market, and how we can best support it. 1) By default the bt dongles operates in what microsoft seems to call "limited Bluetooth mode". That is, to the OS, it's a USB keyboard/ mouse, and not a bluetooth interface. This is true on windows as well as the mac. And I'm able to use bluetooth alongside it on the mac and windows. Thus there are *really* 2 bluetooth transceivers operating, but only 1 is recognized by the OS as such. 2) With some trickiness, though nothing that's not documented, I was able to get Windows to recognize it as a general purpose bluetooth adapter, discoverable and so on. This trickiness included installing the software (intellipoint 6.1) that came with it, installing a recommended windows hotfix, and holding down a button on the dongle for 5 seconds. 3) I cannot get the mac to recognize the dongle as a bluetooth transceiver. Questions: 1) by "limited Bluetooth mode", does MSoft simply mean that the OS isn't recognizing the bluetooth transceiver? Or is this part of the bluetooth standard? 2) Does the mac not recognize it because it's not on a list of supported bt transceivers? Is there a list somewhere of which dongles the mac does recognize, and perhaps a roadmap of their intentions in this area? Sorry I misread your question. An external BT dongle will override the internal one, I have a class 1 Edimax (highly recommended as it uses the Cambridge Silicon chipset and works right out of the box, unlike the Broadcom-based ones) doing just that. The only problem has been that when the Mac is in discovery state, both the internal and external devices respond when polled (under 10.4.10, not sure about 10.5). This is a problem because they both have the same name, and it is not deterministic as to which one responds first so you can't bet on which one will be first in the list. Who knows which chipset your dongle uses, there is a chance MacOS will not support it, or only support it in limited ways. Thanks for the feedback. The question is not one of having benefit. Here's the question: Today I bought a mouse that has a usb-bt dongle in the box. Say I'm a naive user. I put it on my computer, not knowing anything. What's going to happen? Actually I'm going to find out soon, because I'm going to try it! I don't expect there would be any benefit of having more than one Bluetooth interface active, it may make things worse as they may interfere with each other. I say that on the basis that all Bluetooth comms occur in the same frequency band, with frequency hopping used to help reduce collisions between independent devices. The only benefit I could see is when the devices are different classes, e.g. using a class 1 device for services which need greater range, but a lower power one for short range things like keyboard and mouse. This would be a conscientious way to reduce your interference impact on your neighbours. On 31 Oct 2007, at 19:01, bluetooth-dev-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: Can a mac have more than one bluetooth device? I tried plugging in a dongle, and I believe what happened was that the dongle replaced the builtin bluetooth device. Also the api for finding out info about the bluetooth device seems to only support one device. Is there a definitive answer? --Daniel This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: More than one bluetooth device?
by Tim Hewett 01 Nov '07

01 Nov '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Daniel, Tim. On 31 Oct 2007, at 23:11, Daniel Birns wrote: Hi Tim, --Daniel On Oct 31, 2007, at 3:59 PM, Tim Hewett wrote: Daniel, Tim. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… Sorry I misread your question. An external BT dongle will override the internal one, I have a class 1 Edimax (highly recommended as it uses the Cambridge Silicon chipset and works right out of the box, unlike the Broadcom-based ones) doing just that. The only problem has been that when the Mac is in discovery state, both the internal and external devices respond when polled (under 10.4.10, not sure about 10.5). This is a problem because they both have the same name, and it is not deterministic as to which one responds first so you can't bet on which one will be first in the list. Who knows which chipset your dongle uses, there is a chance MacOS will not support it, or only support it in limited ways. Thanks for the feedback. The question is not one of having benefit. Here's the question: Today I bought a mouse that has a usb-bt dongle in the box. Say I'm a naive user. I put it on my computer, not knowing anything. What's going to happen? Actually I'm going to find out soon, because I'm going to try it! I don't expect there would be any benefit of having more than one Bluetooth interface active, it may make things worse as they may interfere with each other. I say that on the basis that all Bluetooth comms occur in the same frequency band, with frequency hopping used to help reduce collisions between independent devices. The only benefit I could see is when the devices are different classes, e.g. using a class 1 device for services which need greater range, but a lower power one for short range things like keyboard and mouse. This would be a conscientious way to reduce your interference impact on your neighbours. On 31 Oct 2007, at 19:01, bluetooth-dev-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: Can a mac have more than one bluetooth device? I tried plugging in a dongle, and I believe what happened was that the dongle replaced the builtin bluetooth device. Also the api for finding out info about the bluetooth device seems to only support one device. Is there a definitive answer? --Daniel This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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