November 2013 - Bluetooth-dev

Re: Will Apple Approve? - Using Silent Notifications to Initiate A Background BLE Scan
by Roland King 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

I see the fine line you're walking now, you have to register for notifications and it looks like the silent ones are UIRemoteNotificationTypeNewsstandContentAvailability, so the user (and hence the tester) is going to get a rather odd message asking if he will allow the app to download new issues in the background .. that's certainly confusing and may be enough against the spirit of what Apple designed silent pushes for to get disallowed. pmarcos answers quite a lot in that forum so you might just want to ask directly if you can do what you want and if so how you can register for them. If the answer is 'you can't' I'd file a bug report pointing out how very useful silent push notifications generically are. They fit the whole patten of having apps triggered from external things instead of keep waking up and seeing if something changed. On 12 Nov, 2013, at 6:28 pm, David Chu <storywithoutend(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hey Roland + Etan, > > You nailed it. I'm trying to use silent notifications to start a background service scan. > > I'll check the dev boards as you said. If I find anything out, I'll be sure to let you guys know. > > Thanks! > - Dave > > On Nov 12, 2013, at 6:19 PM, Roland King <rols(a)rols.org> wrote: > >> I think he's talking about Push Notifications, nothing to do with BTLE, but using them to silently start a service scanning in the background. That's quite creative. >> >> I don't see where in the documentation is says it's only for updating content, and 'updating content' could potentially mean all sorts of things anyway. Just that it has to have a content-available key in the json. The user would have to agree to receiving the notifications. >> >> Unfortunately there's no telling what Apple will or won't approve without writing it and sending it in . I don't even know how much testing they do of push notifications when they test an app. You could try the apple dev forums about notifications as well, might be some hints there. >> >> On 12 Nov, 2013, at 5:59 pm, Etan Kissling <kissling(a)oberon.ch> wrote: >> >>> David, >>> >>> could it be that there’s a confusion about the terminology? >>> >>> Notifications (and indications) are sent out by the peripheral to push content to the central without having >>> to repeatedly read a characteristic. >>> >>> Of course, you can write a notification handler that starts a scan. Remember to set the corresponding >>> background-mode keys in Info.plist. >>> >>> And custom service UUIDs are also not a problem. In fact, there are only a few standard profiles yet, and >>> most manufacturers use custom UUIDs for their tasks. >>> >>> Etan >>> >>> On 12.11.2013, at 06:22, David Chu <storywithoutend(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> I'm not worried about the technical side of doing this, but I was wondering if anyone knows if Apple will reject it. From the documentation it says that remote notifications are used to update content. Can it be used to update CBPeripherals as well? >>>> >>>> The use case is time-sensitive and the CBUUID is a custom service. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> >>>> David Chu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/kissling%40oberon.ch >>>> >>>> This email sent to kissling(a)oberon.ch >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/rols%40rols.org >>> >>> This email sent to rols(a)rols.org >> > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Will Apple Approve? - Using Silent Notifications to Initiate A Background BLE Scan
by David Chu 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

Hey Roland + Etan, You nailed it. I'm trying to use silent notifications to start a background service scan. I'll check the dev boards as you said. If I find anything out, I'll be sure to let you guys know. Thanks! - Dave On Nov 12, 2013, at 6:19 PM, Roland King <rols(a)rols.org> wrote: > I think he's talking about Push Notifications, nothing to do with BTLE, but using them to silently start a service scanning in the background. That's quite creative. > > I don't see where in the documentation is says it's only for updating content, and 'updating content' could potentially mean all sorts of things anyway. Just that it has to have a content-available key in the json. The user would have to agree to receiving the notifications. > > Unfortunately there's no telling what Apple will or won't approve without writing it and sending it in . I don't even know how much testing they do of push notifications when they test an app. You could try the apple dev forums about notifications as well, might be some hints there. > > On 12 Nov, 2013, at 5:59 pm, Etan Kissling <kissling(a)oberon.ch> wrote: > >> David, >> >> could it be that there’s a confusion about the terminology? >> >> Notifications (and indications) are sent out by the peripheral to push content to the central without having >> to repeatedly read a characteristic. >> >> Of course, you can write a notification handler that starts a scan. Remember to set the corresponding >> background-mode keys in Info.plist. >> >> And custom service UUIDs are also not a problem. In fact, there are only a few standard profiles yet, and >> most manufacturers use custom UUIDs for their tasks. >> >> Etan >> >> On 12.11.2013, at 06:22, David Chu <storywithoutend(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I'm not worried about the technical side of doing this, but I was wondering if anyone knows if Apple will reject it. From the documentation it says that remote notifications are used to update content. Can it be used to update CBPeripherals as well? >>> >>> The use case is time-sensitive and the CBUUID is a custom service. >>> >>> Thanks in advance, >>> >>> David Chu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/kissling%40oberon.ch >>> >>> This email sent to kissling(a)oberon.ch >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/rols%40rols.org >> >> This email sent to rols(a)rols.org > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Will Apple Approve? - Using Silent Notifications to Initiate A Background BLE Scan
by Roland King 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

I think he's talking about Push Notifications, nothing to do with BTLE, but using them to silently start a service scanning in the background. That's quite creative. I don't see where in the documentation is says it's only for updating content, and 'updating content' could potentially mean all sorts of things anyway. Just that it has to have a content-available key in the json. The user would have to agree to receiving the notifications. Unfortunately there's no telling what Apple will or won't approve without writing it and sending it in . I don't even know how much testing they do of push notifications when they test an app. You could try the apple dev forums about notifications as well, might be some hints there. On 12 Nov, 2013, at 5:59 pm, Etan Kissling <kissling(a)oberon.ch> wrote: > David, > > could it be that there’s a confusion about the terminology? > > Notifications (and indications) are sent out by the peripheral to push content to the central without having > to repeatedly read a characteristic. > > Of course, you can write a notification handler that starts a scan. Remember to set the corresponding > background-mode keys in Info.plist. > > And custom service UUIDs are also not a problem. In fact, there are only a few standard profiles yet, and > most manufacturers use custom UUIDs for their tasks. > > Etan > > On 12.11.2013, at 06:22, David Chu <storywithoutend(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I'm not worried about the technical side of doing this, but I was wondering if anyone knows if Apple will reject it. From the documentation it says that remote notifications are used to update content. Can it be used to update CBPeripherals as well? >> >> The use case is time-sensitive and the CBUUID is a custom service. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> David Chu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/kissling%40oberon.ch >> >> This email sent to kissling(a)oberon.ch > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/rols%40rols.org > > This email sent to rols(a)rols.org _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Will Apple Approve? - Using Silent Notifications to Initiate A Background BLE Scan
by Etan Kissling 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

David, could it be that there’s a confusion about the terminology? Notifications (and indications) are sent out by the peripheral to push content to the central without having to repeatedly read a characteristic. Of course, you can write a notification handler that starts a scan. Remember to set the corresponding background-mode keys in Info.plist. And custom service UUIDs are also not a problem. In fact, there are only a few standard profiles yet, and most manufacturers use custom UUIDs for their tasks. Etan On 12.11.2013, at 06:22, David Chu <storywithoutend(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I'm not worried about the technical side of doing this, but I was wondering if anyone knows if Apple will reject it. From the documentation it says that remote notifications are used to update content. Can it be used to update CBPeripherals as well? > > The use case is time-sensitive and the CBUUID is a custom service. > > Thanks in advance, > > David Chu > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/kissling%40oberon.ch > > This email sent to kissling(a)oberon.ch _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Will Apple Approve? - Using Silent Notifications to Initiate A Background BLE Scan
by David Chu 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

Hi Everyone, I'm not worried about the technical side of doing this, but I was wondering if anyone knows if Apple will reject it. From the documentation it says that remote notifications are used to update content. Can it be used to update CBPeripherals as well? The use case is time-sensitive and the CBUUID is a custom service. Thanks in advance, David Chu _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: BLE central device as GATT server
by Kevin McQuown 11 Nov '13

11 Nov '13

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Re: BLE central device as GATT server
by William Henderson 11 Nov '13

11 Nov '13

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Re: AW: BLE central device as GATT server
by Jacky Tsoi 11 Nov '13

11 Nov '13

Hello Stephan, iOS app can be BLE central or peripheral. But you are right that, while it is the central, it can only be GATT client, and while it is peripheral, it is the GATT server. There's one exception -- the new ANCS in iOS 7. The ANCS is provided by the iOS itself, and no matter iOS device is in central or peripheral, the ANCS is always the "GATT server". -- Jacky @iPhone > On 11 Nov, 2013, at 23:15, Walter Stephan <stephan.walter(a)swissphone.com> wrote: > > András, thanks for being patient and explaining this to me! > > So the answer to my original question is that iOS cannot act as a (proprietary) GATT server while in a Central role. > (I was confused because from the nRF8001, I was able to connect to the Time Service published by iOS.) > > You are right that the nRF8001 cannot scan or initiate a connection. > > In conclusion, I will have to implement my functionality as a service on the accessory. > > Best regards, > --Stephan Walter > > >> Even thought the specification may allow you to create a GATT server on >> the central side (as I understood it from the specifiaction), the iOS >> Core Bluetooth does not provide this functionality. The DB is tied to >> the CBPeripheraManager which is the peripheral role. At the same time >> "The nRF8001 is a pure BLE Peripheral device, and it can not be used as >> a Central." (https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/index.php/can-the-nrf8001- >> be-used-as-a-central) So I suppose the nRF8001 cannot scan for devices >> or start a connection. As a consequence, it is not able to connect to >> the GATT server implemented by the CBPeripheralManager. >> >> So what you can do: >> - the mRF8001 must advertise >> - the iOS device must scan for the nRF8001 >> - the iOS device must connect the nRF8001 and discover its services. >> >> At this point it's up to you how you implement the communication. It is >> possible to have a single service with a single characteristic on the >> nRF8001 side and implement a higher level protocol that implements a >> database in a GATT serverish way. This is not preferred for several >> reasons (this is not the usual way of doing things and you lose most of >> the optimizations provided by the underlying stacks) but it's your >> choice. > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/jacky%40tsoi.me > > This email sent to jacky(a)tsoi.me _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: BLE central device as GATT server
by András Kövi 11 Nov '13

11 Nov '13

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AW: BLE central device as GATT server
by Walter Stephan 11 Nov '13

11 Nov '13

András, thanks for being patient and explaining this to me! So the answer to my original question is that iOS cannot act as a (proprietary) GATT server while in a Central role. (I was confused because from the nRF8001, I was able to connect to the Time Service published by iOS.) You are right that the nRF8001 cannot scan or initiate a connection. In conclusion, I will have to implement my functionality as a service on the accessory. Best regards, --Stephan Walter > Even thought the specification may allow you to create a GATT server on > the central side (as I understood it from the specifiaction), the iOS > Core Bluetooth does not provide this functionality. The DB is tied to > the CBPeripheraManager which is the peripheral role. At the same time > "The nRF8001 is a pure BLE Peripheral device, and it can not be used as > a Central." (https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/index.php/can-the-nrf8001- > be-used-as-a-central) So I suppose the nRF8001 cannot scan for devices > or start a connection. As a consequence, it is not able to connect to > the GATT server implemented by the CBPeripheralManager. > > So what you can do: > - the mRF8001 must advertise > - the iOS device must scan for the nRF8001 > - the iOS device must connect the nRF8001 and discover its services. > > At this point it's up to you how you implement the communication. It is > possible to have a single service with a single characteristic on the > nRF8001 side and implement a higher level protocol that implements a > database in a GATT serverish way. This is not preferred for several > reasons (this is not the usual way of doing things and you lose most of > the optimizations provided by the underlying stacks) but it's your > choice. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Bluetooth-dev mailing list (Bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/bluetooth-dev/site_archiver%40lists… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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