September 2011 - colorsync-users

RE: NEC PA271W-BK-SV
by Robert Crow 01 Oct '11

01 Oct '11

regarding the NEC spectraviews our lovely new 241's have mini display port (to HDMI) and DVI connections. Is there a consensus as to which is the 'better' connection to a Mac Pro? thanks, Rob. ________________________________________ From: colorsync-users-bounces+r.crow=mdx.ac.uk(a)lists.apple.com [colorsync-users-bounces+r.crow=mdx.ac.uk(a)lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com [colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com] Sent: 30 September 2011 20:03 To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 8, Issue 219 Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: NEC PA271W-BK-SV (Roger Breton) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:00:57 -0400 From: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> Subject: RE: NEC PA271W-BK-SV To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Message-ID: <000601cc7f14$cb942960$62bc7c20$(a)videotron.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Finally landed a very nice NEC PA271 unit on my desktop tonight and it is a beauty. I almost get lost in the huge 2560 x 1440 resolution - just 120 pixel shy of a 30" monitor resolution when you think of it? Very uniform, very crisp, incredible gamut. With the drivers on the supplied CD, Windows 7 recognized the display in no time. Only have praise for this monitor. And, yes, with MultiProfiler, it's a cinch to dial in any white point chromaticites, gamut and transfer function one cares to use. I can say I've had the chance to use and work with the whole PA series, from the 24" PA241 all the way to the 30" PA301 and I can say that "quality runs in the family". I only wish that NEC had some kind of policy to make the SDK available for hobbyist like me, though L / Roger Breton ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Colorsync-users mailing list Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 8, Issue 219 ***********************************************

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RE: NEC PA271W-BK-SV
by Roger Breton 30 Sep '11

30 Sep '11

I'm not sure you get the benefit of hardware calibration using instruments other than NEC's own puck? Roger Sent from Samsung Focus WP7 -----Original Message----- From: Armand Rosenberg Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:29 PM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV Thanks to everyone for the great feedback. I have a couple of follow-up questions, if I may: 1) There is a choice of DVI-D or DisplayPort input on this monitor. If I understand correctly, the difference boils down to 8-bit vs 10-bit (per color) communication with the video card. Is this worth worrying about in practice, and/or is it now even possible to take advantage of the extra 2 bits? 2) Should I be concerned about the profile quality when using an older-vintage i1Pro with the SpectraView II software? Armand _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca

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Re: NEC Display
by Scott Geffert 26 Sep '11

26 Sep '11

Hi All, I have recently done several tests as there were threads about the Eye One and bundled OEM devices like the one bundled with the Spectraview displays. I generally advise to purchase the naked NEC displays (no Spectraview) and to utilize BasiCColor display and the Discus (if your workflow precision warrants the investment-usually a site with multiple displays) As I own both the regular and the OEM NEC devices I did a head to head comparison and the NEC device appears to give better results as it has been tweaked for the wider gamut NEC display primaries. To satisfy another curiosity I tested the Eye One device, and the NEC OEM device on a new iMac LED display and the results were very interesting. Both the Eye One-based devices resulted in a profile that appeared to be visually pleasing and the numeric results were understandably different between the NEC puck and the Eye One Display 2 device (the regular Eye One Display was better in this instance). I then opened up a rather wide dynamic range image of a beach with mountains in the background. In both instances, the mountains in the background of the image were jet black which seemed to be what you would expect on the glossy LED display, but the colors looked really clean. Then just for fun I tried the Discus device and the results were fascinating. Not only were the numbers better, but the mountains now display as a very dark green with visible detail yet still decidedly near black. This seems to validate that the Discus does in fact bring out more precision in the display profile-especially with the new wider gamut hardware. So to summarize: The NEC with the Discus is fantastic The NEC with the NEC OEM device using BasiCColor Display would be a second choice The NEC with Spectraview would be a third choice The NEC with an existing Eye One and X Rite software would be a fourth choice I do not have the numbers as this was performed at a customer site but I think that anyone running this test would arrive at similar results. It is great to see a renewed interest in precision lately! On Sep 26, 2011, at 3:04 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV (Tim Gray) > 2. Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV (MARK SEGAL) > 3. Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV (Tim Gray) > 4. Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV (Andrew Rodney) > 5. Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV (Armand Rosenberg) > 6. Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV (Andrew Rodney) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:51:36 -0400 > From: Tim Gray <tgray(a)protozoic.com> > Subject: Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Message-ID: <20110926135136.GA1562(a)selenium.125px.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > On Sep 23, 2011 at 02:33 PM -0400, Armand Rosenberg wrote: >> After some reading, I came across the NEC PA271W-BK-SV monitor, which >> sounds pretty good. Does anyone here have any experience with it >> and/or its calibration system? > > I have the PA241 with the NEC calibration system. Works great. It was > a good deal cheaper when I bought mine at the beginning of the year to > purchase the monitor separately from the puck and Spectraview, at least > from B&H Photo. The hood was free (by mail) after the purchase. I can > only imagine the 271 is great as well. > > One advantage to the NEC calibration system is that it communicates with > the monitors hardware LUT as opposed to setting a LUT on the video card. > Also, it's nice to be able to switch back to sRGB relatively easily when > you want to view stuff that's not properly color managed. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 08:47:20 -0700 (PDT) > From: MARK SEGAL <mgsegal(a)rogers.com> > Subject: Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV > To: Tim Gray <tgray(a)protozoic.com>, "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Message-ID: > <1317052040.56413.YahooMailNeo(a)web88614.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Tim, > > I have a 271 bought at Vistek that I'm using very successfully with the NEC bespoke colorimeter and BasicColor 4. It too calibrates the monitor LUT and makes fine profiles that test well using PatchTool as an independent means of verification. > > > Cheers, > > > Mark > > > ________________________________ > From: Tim Gray <tgray(a)protozoic.com> > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:51:36 AM > Subject: Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV > > On Sep 23, 2011 at 02:33 PM -0400, Armand Rosenberg wrote: >> After some reading, I came across the NEC PA271W-BK-SV monitor, which sounds pretty good. Does anyone here have any experience with it and/or its calibration system? > > I have the PA241 with the NEC calibration system. Works great. It was a good deal cheaper when I bought mine at the beginning of the year to purchase the monitor separately from the puck and Spectraview, at least from B&H Photo. The hood was free (by mail) after the purchase. I can only imagine the 271 is great as well. > > One advantage to the NEC calibration system is that it communicates with the monitors hardware LUT as opposed to setting a LUT on the video card. Also, it's nice to be able to switch back to sRGB relatively easily when you want to view stuff that's not properly color managed. > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mgsegal%40rogers.com > > This email sent to mgsegal(a)rogers.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 12:34:51 -0400 > From: Tim Gray <tgray(a)protozoic.com> > Subject: Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV > To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Message-ID: <20110926163451.GC1562(a)selenium.125px.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > On Sep 26, 2011 at 08:47 AM -0700, MARK SEGAL wrote: >> I have a 271 bought at Vistek that I'm using very successfully with the >> NEC bespoke colorimeter and BasicColor 4. It too calibrates the monitor >> LUT and makes fine profiles that test well using PatchTool as an >> independent means of verification. > > Yes, I have heard that BasicColor 4 also interacts with the hardware > LUT. But since I was starting from scratch with no software or > hardware, I figured I'd just go the all NEC route. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:42:30 -0600 > From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> > Subject: Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV > To: ColorSync List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Message-ID: <4BA76DF2-B804-4AF3-A67F-0099E86544AE(a)digitaldog.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > On Sep 26, 2011, at 10:34 AM, Tim Gray wrote: > >> But since I was starting from scratch with no software or hardware, I figured I'd just go the all NEC route. > > That will save you a lot money with the NEC bundle with their colorimeter. > > Andrew Rodney > http://www.digitaldog.net/ > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:29:02 -0400 > From: Armand Rosenberg <Armand.Rosenberg(a)nrl.navy.mil> > Subject: Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Message-ID: <p06230923caa66ff0fee5(a)[132.250.152.202]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Thanks to everyone for the great feedback. I have a couple of > follow-up questions, if I may: > > 1) There is a choice of DVI-D or DisplayPort input on this monitor. > If I understand correctly, the difference boils down to 8-bit vs > 10-bit (per color) communication with the video card. Is this worth > worrying about in practice, and/or is it now even possible to take > advantage of the extra 2 bits? > > 2) Should I be concerned about the profile quality when using an > older-vintage i1Pro with the SpectraView II software? > > Armand > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 12:59:49 -0600 > From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> > Subject: Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV > To: ColorSync List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Message-ID: <D7DAD32E-9207-45CC-8703-EA33CD607B08(a)digitaldog.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > On Sep 26, 2011, at 12:29 PM, Armand Rosenberg wrote: > >> 1) There is a choice of DVI-D or DisplayPort input on this monitor. If I understand correctly, the difference boils down to 8-bit vs 10-bit (per color) communication with the video card. Is this worth worrying about in practice, and/or is it now even possible to take advantage of the extra 2 bits? > > Thanks to Apple (sorry), we don‚t yet have a full high bit path (OS, Applications, Cards, Drivers, Displays) anyway. We have some cards, Apps like Photoshop and displays like Eizo and NEC all set to go, but the missing link is something Apple needs to address. Then yes, you‚d want to use a DisplayPort. > > For an exhaustive set of posts on the subject, see: http://forums.adobe.com/message/3286011 > >> Should I be concerned about the profile quality when using an older-vintage i1Pro with the SpectraView II software? > > It will work fine although not as well measuring the darker colors as you‚d get with a matted Colorimeter. > > Andrew Rodney > http://www.digitaldog.net/ > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 8, Issue 217 > *********************************************** > >

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Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV
by Armand Rosenberg 26 Sep '11

26 Sep '11

Thanks to everyone for the great feedback. I have a couple of follow-up questions, if I may: 1) There is a choice of DVI-D or DisplayPort input on this monitor. If I understand correctly, the difference boils down to 8-bit vs 10-bit (per color) communication with the video card. Is this worth worrying about in practice, and/or is it now even possible to take advantage of the extra 2 bits? 2) Should I be concerned about the profile quality when using an older-vintage i1Pro with the SpectraView II software? Armand

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NEC PA271W-BK-SV
by Armand Rosenberg 26 Sep '11

26 Sep '11

After some reading, I came across the NEC PA271W-BK-SV monitor, which sounds pretty good. Does anyone here have any experience with it and/or its calibration system? (BTW: My alternate calibration method, absent SpectraView, would be to use an EyeOne Pro with some TBD software. Running OS X 10.6.8 on an older Mac Pro tower.) Thank you, Armand

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Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV
by Richard Wagner 24 Sep '11

24 Sep '11

On Sep 23, 2011,Armand Rosenberg <Armand.Rosenberg(a)nrl.navy.mil> wrote: > After some reading, I came across the NEC PA271W-BK-SV monitor, which > sounds pretty good. Does anyone here have any experience with it > and/or its calibration system? > > (BTW: My alternate calibration method, absent SpectraView, would be > to use an EyeOne Pro with some TBD software. Running OS X 10.6.8 on > an older Mac Pro tower.) I'm using the same monitor with BasICColor Display 4 and the custom NEC colorimeter and I'm very pleased. BasICColor also uses the monitor LUTs for display calibration. You can find BasICColor on the Chromix site. I haven't had time to run head-to-head comparisons with the EyeOne Pro (I just got mine back from X-Rite after a re-cal), but that should be fine. --Rich Wagner

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Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV
by Bruce Andrew Jamieson 23 Sep '11

23 Sep '11

Hey, Armand! I use that model NEC and I like it a lot. I've never worked on an Eizo but you can definitely get to where you want to go with this display. NEC seems to have better tech support than the worthless schlubs at LaCie, which was my previous favorite display. It switches between colorimetric environments like a champ, whereas my LaCie 526 stumbled over some weird technical problem that LaCie refused to acknowledge. I've been using their SpectraView II software which unfortunately costs extra but does a great job. SpectraView II has a lot of bells and whistles that are specific to this screen, though I'm starting to use Argyll with dispCAL and I've been having good luck with that, too. Skip the hood. It looks like garbage. Like a Michael Bay-era Transformer bad. Buy some nice black foam core and black velvet contact material and make your own. You'll be much happier, and it'll be a fifth of the cost! Bruce Jamieson

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Re: NEC PA271W-BK-SV
by Ken Fleisher 23 Sep '11

23 Sep '11

We just got one of these and calibrated it with the Spectraview software and and i1Pro. It looks excellent! You might want to look at the detailed review on Chromix which I found very helpful: http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/NEC_PA271W_Review On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Armand Rosenberg < Armand.Rosenberg(a)nrl.navy.mil> wrote: > After some reading, I came across the NEC PA271W-BK-SV monitor, which > sounds pretty good. Does anyone here have any experience with it and/or its > calibration system? > > (BTW: My alternate calibration method, absent SpectraView, would be to use > an EyeOne Pro with some TBD software. Running OS X 10.6.8 on an older Mac > Pro tower.) > > Thank you, > Armand >

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NEC LCD3090WQXI / SpectraView II Preference Question
by Rick Gordon 21 Sep '11

21 Sep '11

I've got an NEC LCD3090WQXI monitor with the MDSVSENSOR (custom i1Display v2) Setting gamma as native, I have been using the Automatic setting (let SV choose based on the existing sensor) for Source of Primary Color Chromaticities for ICC Profile, the other choices being Calibration Sensor Measurements (with a caveat that some sensors may give inaccurate results with wide gamut displays) and Factory Measurements (suggesting that it may be more accurate than some sensors when measuring wide gamut displays). Can someone confirm whether the shipped wide-gamut optimized custom i1Display v2 would be best used with one of the other specific settings rather than auto? -- ___________________________________________________ RICK GORDON EMERALD VALLEY GRAPHICS AND CONSULTING ___________________________________________________ WWW: http://www.shelterpub.com

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Re: Averaging
by Niall Coady 21 Sep '11

21 Sep '11

Dear Andre, We at MPX 360 have developed a system called "Smooth Profiler" that not only averages results but smooths the datasets as well. The algorithm used is unique and is called "silk curve", created by our own Mark Priest the creator of the original "Press Signature" system. This action will ensure that you get smooth transitions in your resulting profiles. You can use Colorport with the DTP22 and feed our application the resulting datasets. For screen printing we also have custom targets that reduce the area of print so that varying "pressures" do not effect the results so negatively. We also developed a system with our partners called DL Profiler, this system builds smooth ICC and Device Link profiles for use in our Colourserver2 products. As demonstrated in the IPA Ink Optimisation shoot out last year. For more info please contact me off list. All the best Niall Coady MPX360 Ltd Global House 1 Ashley Avenue Epsom, Surrey KT18 5AD T 01372 253 180 D 01372 253 182 F 01372 253 181 M 07740 940459 W Http://www.mpx360.com Disclaimer This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of MPX360 Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient, you are advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is prohibited. If you received this email in error, please notify info(a)mpx360.com and remove it from your system On 20 Sep 2011, at 20:02, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:05:57 +0000 (GMT) > From: Terence Wyse <wyseconsul(a)mac.com> > Subject: Re: 30 lpi silkscreen w/ DTP 20: Averaging suggestions? > To: andre ribuoli <andre.ribuoli(a)gmail.com> > Cc: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Message-ID: <19c0d385-5d9a-43f0-e619-c5a8b7ad416f(a)me.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > I wouldn't think there'd be much need for averaging with the DTP20 Pulse since it's already taking multiple readings per patch and sort of averaging on the fly. I'd just make sure you're using a chart with the largest patch size that the DTP20 can accommodate. You may have to use ColorPort for that since I doubt Pulse Color Elite allows you to create custom charts. > > Terry > > On Sep 19, 2011, at 04:00 PM, andre ribuoli <andre.ribuoli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello Group, > > I was curious if anyone had a good suggestion for averaging the Xrite > DTP20's readings for a low 30lpi halftone color target made with 4 color > screenprinting? > I do know Xrite's newest solution has an average feature, as do some older > programs like ProfileMaker. > > The Pulse ColorElite does not, however, I could average using ColorPort, > taking individual numerical readings and averaging with Excel or similar. > I'm hoping there is a utility or program that does support the Xrite DTP20, > allows targets to be read multiple times to compensate for low res color > swatches. > > Any suggestions other than buying a new CMM setup or taking the laborious > route of manual readings? :) > > many thanks > Andre Ribuoli > www.ribuolidigital.com

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