September 2012 - colorsync-users

Update: Are Canon IPF printers any reliable?
by Roger Breton 10 Jan '13

10 Jan '13

Warm thanks' to everyone that responded on and off-list. I got some wonderful insights. I still have not made my mind yet but, as I am checking prices today -- I hate to acknowledge that money plays an important part of my decision --, but I see 24" Epson printers that are selling at bargain prices, way below Canon's and HP's :( See here: http://www.vistek.ca/results/ProPhotoPrinters/printers-inkjet-wide%20carr/Wi de-Carriage.aspx According to this page (those of you in the US can probably find even better deals than this), I can have a 7900 for $2600 cdn while the 4900 is selling for almost $100 cdn more? Something's fishy because similar carriage width Canon's and HP's will run me $1000 to $1500 more? Economics.... / Roger

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Reading ambient light using an Eye-One Pro
by Peter Constable 26 Sep '12

26 Sep '12

List-members- In the past, I've used i1 Share to acquire spectral data from ambient light sources using the Eye-One Pro and it's ambient light filter. i1 Share won't run on Lion. Are there any suggestions for Lion-compatabile software that will grab spectral data from light sources? I know of Canon's Light Source Measure Tool but that will only provide degrees Kelvin (as well as illuminance). Regards, _peter

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i1Profiler & SpectroProofer Data
by Martin Orpen 18 Sep '12

18 Sep '12

It's so easy to create a profile with ProfileMaker. Load the chart, Load the data. Make the profile. With i1Profiler the workflow is a little more complicated: Plug in your i1 Pro2 Stare at the ugly interface. Scan through the complicated mass of crap in the left hand panel that has already accumulated even though you've only made 3 profiles (what's it going to be like when you've made hundreds?) Press at the meaningless icons. Repeatedly drag and drop your data file on the interface without any feedback or success. Look through the useless documentation. Ring the reseller and have them try and sell you a simpler, cheaper, profile making product. Send them the data by email so that they can forward it to the one person at UK X-Rite who knows how the product works. Wait 12 hours. Give up. Anybody here know if you can import SpectroProofer data into i1Profiler and make a simple RGB profile? I gave up and used Argyll -- txt2ti3 and then colprof and the job was done… apart from that lingering feeling that I've wasted my money on i1Profiler. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd

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Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 9, Issue 146
by Rob Griffith 17 Sep '12

17 Sep '12

Hi Martin I think you'll find that most resellers on this list also, like me, spend a lot of time building profiles on-site for customers and for a very wide range printers and RIPs. Also our exposure to a wider set of workflows make us ideally placed to provide feedback to X-Rite, which we all do on a regular basis. My own experience with colour management goes way back to Linocolor. Rob > On 16 Sep 2012, at 09:52, Rob Griffith <robgriffith(a)colourcollective.co.uk> wrote: > >> Re the comments on i1 Profiler I agree with Scott. It's up to us to work with the tools we're given. We can give feedback to X-Rite but at the end of the day they aren't designing a product for just us specialists, if they are going to make any money they have to appeal to a wider market. > > > What a surprise! The middlemen who flog X-Rite gear agree that everything is OK. > > As an end user, the person who needs to build a profile at 2am for a 9am deadline, I can tell you that this cosy arrangement isn't acceptable. > > I've been building profiles for years. The software and hardware that I've purchased from X-Rite should not just be easy to use in a simple workflow, it should reward deeper investigation by the end user too. I shouldn't need to be scouring the web or signing up for seminars from a bunch of middlemen to find out the real meaning of the arbitrary integers on a slider. > > The preponderance of the views of resellers on this list really skews the debate. > > The photographers, the print makers and the printers are the "specialists" here. They buy the software and hardware, deploy it and create stuff using it. It is their lives that are made easier (or harder) by the features (or lack of) in those products. > > I imagine that a forum for chefs would not tolerate the resellers of pots and pans having so much prominence in the discussions about creating amazing dining experiences. I really don't know why people involved in image making put up with it. > > -- > Martin Orpen > Idea Digital Imaging Ltd

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Re: i1Profiler & SpectroProofer Data
by Rob Griffith 16 Sep '12

16 Sep '12

Re the comments on i1 Profiler I agree with Scott. It's up to us to work with the tools we're given. We can give feedback to X-Rite but at the end of the day they aren't designing a product for just us specialists, if they are going to make any money they have to appeal to a wider market. I think i1 Profiler is a huge leap forward for most users. The information is there is you want it, as are more advanced options if required. The profiles are certainly better than ProfileMaker. We sold an i1 Publish Pro 2 to a customer last week. They managed to get up and running making good profiles and the only support calls we took were to help them with how to work with their various RIPs. They got to grips with Profiler on their own. That's a pretty good testament for the product. Yes, it could be better still but what couldn't? Rob Griffith The Colour Collective.

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Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 9, Issue 143
by Marc Levine 16 Sep '12

16 Sep '12

Martin, It should be like this: Launch the software Choose "RGB printer" / "Profiling" on the home screen (expert mode) Drag and drop your CGATS data on the measurement button Click "ICC Profile" button, name it and save it. You dont't have to stare at it. ; ) If you like, send me the data off line and I will give it a go. Marc On 9/13/12 2:00 PM, "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: >Anybody here know if you can import SpectroProofer data into i1Profiler >and make a simple RGB profile? I gave up and used Argyll -- txt2ti3 and >then colprof and the job was done apart from that lingering feeling that >I've wasted my money on i1Profiler.

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Re: i1Profiler & SpectroProofer Data [subject corrected]
by Henry Davis 15 Sep '12

15 Sep '12

On Sep 15, 2012, at 3:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > <Snip> > > The Perceptual rendering controls you mention are nothing new. They > are unchanged and have been around for over a decade in previous > versions of Profiler (aka Monaco Profiler). > > This silly emotional banter isn't constructive. XRite already has a > forum where these things have been discussed for years. I'd suggest > getting over this and move on. Or at least, let us move on. > > Scott Martin > www.on-sight.com That statement makes everything ok? Your comment isn't constructive at all. Martin Orpen has a valid point or two about real world experience. Yeah, you can move on but some of us would rather help improve things. Henry

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Re: i1Profiler & SpectroProofer Data
by Alexey Gribunin 14 Sep '12

14 Sep '12

Hello Martin! > Anybody here know if you can import SpectroProofer data into i1Profiler > and make a simple RGB profile? I gave up and used Argyll -- txt2ti3 and > then colprof and the job was done… apart from that lingering feeling that > I've wasted my money on i1Profiler. It's quite easy to import SpectroProofer data into i1Profiler. All you need it to format data according to old GretagMacbeth ASCII measurements format. You can try to do it by opening/saving measurements in MeasureTool. I'm usually using Excel for it. After that just drag and drop TXT file to Measurements icon in iProfiler and define filter and measurements standard. Best regards, Alexey Gribunin, UNIT Color Technologies, Moscow, Russia.

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Re: MultiProfiler question
by Rich Wagner 07 Sep '12

07 Sep '12

Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> wrote: > IF and when Blurb actually supplies an output profile for the book printing conditions, that would be the way to go. Better if they told us what rendering intent they force on the conversions and if BPC is used or not. They do supply a CMYK profile... and they recommend Perceptual with BPC. http://www.blurb.com/downloads/Blurb_ICC_Profile.icc http://www.blurb.com/guides/color_management/image_prep_pdf Of course, if you submit a CMYK PDF, you can do the conversions to their color space any way that you want. > This is a bit like many consumer RGB lab workflows where you’re told you have to supply documents in sRGB but to make you feel like the lab is color management aware, they will send you a profile to soft proof you can’t use anywhere else. Sure, but even Costco can give you specific profiles for each printer/paper combination in each store - you can get an incredible match with some pretty elementary color management. (See, for example, http://www.drycreekphoto.com/icc/Profiles/Arizona_profiles.htm#AZ) Costco is a best-kept-secret for many wedding photographers. I've used it, with FTP submission of images converted to their printer space, with great results. Easy, cheap and accurate. > Nor do we know if the profile even reflects the print conditions. I’d prefer if labs like this would just stick to novice, non color management practices and just force you to send them sRGB and skip the silly soft proof exercises. Or better, just implement a true color management workflow as many labs do; supply the actual output profile(s), let you use it to convert your data as you please and post edit that data if you desire. My vote is for the latter. Users should hold Blurb to the fire... until they get a reasonable match. And given that Blurb does provide a profile, I'd use that for soft-proofing (in Photoshop), and if the hardcopy differs significantly from the soft proof, pressure them to re-print. It's just unfortunate that you can't do an accurate soft-proof from LR. Blurb does have a page devoted to color management: http://www.blurb.com/resources/color_management They also note: "At this time Adobe Photoshop® is the only application that we support" They need to do some work to get the LR interface up-to-speed, including documenting a reasonable workflow. --Rich

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searching technique for list archive
by Tom Vanderlinden 07 Sep '12

07 Sep '12

good morning- Is it true that there is not a way to do key word searches on the archive of the ColorSync user list found at: https://lists.apple.com/archives/Colorsync-users ? If there is a known way, could someone share the technique, so that I can find answers to my questions that have likely been asked and answered before? Thanks. -Tom Vanderlinden, 7 Sept 2012

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