September 2013 - colorsync-users

Soft Proofing with White Border
by Ken Fleisher 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

It is recommended that when you soft proof an image on screen compared to a print on white paper (or predicting the print on white paper), that you have a minimum 1" white border surrounding the image on screen. Does anyone know of a good link to a (preferably) non-profit web site that explains in plain English why this is necessary? I need to supply a good reference for it and the link I had been using has gone dead. Thanks! Ken Fleisher

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ICC Profile Editing
by Ken Fleisher 27 Sep '13

27 Sep '13

What are the current crop of ICC profile editing tools? Does anyone have a favorite? What do you like about it? (I'm not talking about evaluating a profile. I need to edit them.) Thanks. Ken Fleisher

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RE: ICC Profile Editing
by Dan Burbank 27 Sep '13

27 Sep '13

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Re: X-Rite Passport Inaccuracies
by Daniel Westcott 22 Sep '13

22 Sep '13

Hi justin. I once lectured on invention at a museum to several groups of school children at various grade levels. I asked the color of an object. Hands shot up. "Red!" I turned out the lights and asked again. The older groups still thought it was red but the youngest groups had the correct answer, black. You can only capture the color that exists when you take your exposure. There are wavelengths in daylight, warm or otherwise, which simply do not exist in CWF and you will never be able to capture something which does not exist. Trying to make a daylight exposure colorimetrically match an exposure taken in a lesser light source may or may not even be possible depending on what color is coming back from the object of the exposure. My point is that if you wish to have a match, fix your light pre-capture. Your results will be far superior to trying to extrapolate from a few color chips what the exposure would have liked like had the color you wish you had actually been in the room when you made the exposure. Remember that light is analog and that compression and decompression of an analog signal comes at a cost. Once something is gone you cannot regain it by decompressing. .. would you expect different results if the signal were never there to begin with as is often the case when shooting in light with deficiencies in certain wavelengths (e.g. CWF)? For what it's worth, $100 is not very much to spend for a useful tool, but you need different and much more costly solutions to accomplish your goals. Cheers Daniel Westcott Perfect logic is meaningless without perfect perspective. Daniel Westcott daniel(a)westcott.us -------- Original message -------- From: Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center <spinnakerphotoimagingcenter(a)dnmillerphoto.com> Date: 09/20/2013 12:16 PM (GMT-07:00) To: Justin Krug <jkrug(a)hotmail.com> Cc: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: X-Rite Passport Inaccuracies On Sep 20, 2013, at 12:13 PM, regarding >> my issues with the X-rite Passport. My primary purpose for using it is >> to get accurate and consistent colors across different ambient and >> artificial light sources for architectural photography. For example, I want the colors in the photo taken with ambient/artificial mixed light to match with those taken under CFL's at night.

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Re: X-Rite Passport Inaccuracies‏
by Justin Krug 22 Sep '13

22 Sep '13

I had sent this to Tom without CC'ing the list.....not sure what the protocol is in this case, but I thought I'd send it along in case someone else wanted to chime in as well. Thank you for all the input thus far. Tom Thank you very much for the detailed response. If I'm not mistaken there are two issues at play. 1) First, there is the problem of matching color across different light sources (including 100% CFL's), for which I understand you to say that's outside of the capabilities of the Passport and other DNG profiles. I'm better off using the HSL sliders to get the color right there. To do that I would probably set some color sampler points on swatches and get the RGB values close between different shots of a color checker under each light source. However, it seems like Lab would be a better color space, so I could look at color only, and that's not available in Lightroom. Otherwise I'm not sure of a reliable way to do that. 2) Then there is my test, which I first conducted in daylight (overcast) with the 60d and 5d. In that case the Passport proved to be no better than the Adobe Standard Profile in correcting colors or matching colors between cameras. Am I mistaken in thinking this is basically the test you were suggesting I do? Or is there something special about warm daylight? Here is the data from my test-- The color values after correction with the Passport (given in a,b values of Lab): 5d: green= -51,39 red= 69,41 yellow= 4,86 blue= 27,-65 60d: green=-42,34 red= 60,39 yellow = 4,79 blue= 25,-53 The color values prior to correction with the Passport, using Adobe Std (given in a,b values of Lab): 5d: green= -47,36 red= 61,37 yellow= 1,87 blue= 18,-59 60d: green= -38,31 red= 56,33 yellow= 2,78 blue= 16,-46 I cannot discern any appreciable change in the difference between the color values of the 5d and 60d using the Passport. Thanks, Justin Krug

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X-Rite Passport Inaccuracies
by Justin Krug 20 Sep '13

20 Sep '13

I was directed here by a helpful photographer whom I contacted regarding my issues with the X-rite Passport. My primary purpose for using it is to get accurate and consistent colors across different ambient and artificial light sources for architectural photography. For example, I want the colors in the photo taken with ambient/artificial mixed light to match with those taken under CFL's at night. Also, I wanted to use it to match color between cameras. On both counts, it has failed, and when I subjected it to a test using the reference values available on X-rite's website, it did not perform well. I would like to get some feedback from experienced members here regarding my findings and the response I received from X-rite after sending them details of my testing. Here is an outline of my test: 1) I took the photo of the X-rite Passport under overcast daylight (no artificial light) with two cameras, the Canon 5d and Canon 60d. 2) Then I created custom profiles from each photo using the X-rite Passport software. 3) Next, I applied the custom profile to each photo of the Passport 4) White balance was corrected in ACR by clicking the WB on the square two over from black (#22) 5) Both photos were loaded into Photoshop and color sampler points were applied to the blue, green, red, and yellow squares (#'s 13,14,15,16) 6) The image was converted to Lab color and the a and b values were compared against the reference values on X-rite's website. 7) The same process was repeated for the photo from each camera using the Adobe Standard profile What I discovered was that the color was just as accurate if not more accurate in the Adobe Standard profile. Also, the colors did not match between the Canon 60d and 5d after applying the X-rite profiles. A couple sample points from the Canon 5d (again, a,b values): Daylight overcast test-- X-rite: red a,b= 69,41; Adobe Std: red a,b= 61,37; Reference (rounded to nearest whole number): red a,b=53,28. X-rite: green a,b=-51,39; Adobe Std: green a,b=-47,36 Reference: green a,b= -38,31 I did the same test under artificial light (CFL I think) and the results were a little closer between the Adobe Standard and the X-rite, but for $100 and promises of accurate color, I was very disappointed. After contacting X-rite, and sending over my findings and photos, I waited over a month to hear back, after their engineers were going to review my results. The response I received was surprising. X-rite said "To make a long story short, your standards for performance and data analysis would not be well suited to use ColorChecker Passport and its DNG profiles." And also "ColorChecker Passport software was designed to be a simple camera profiling solution for casual and non-professional photographers..." The recommendation was that I use an ICC profile as opposed to a DNG profile. They also offered me a refund on the Passport. What do you think of my test and X-rite's response? Have you conducted your own objective testing? I don't need perfect color, but I do want consistent and accurate looking color. Thanks in advance. -Justin Krug

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The Node Chroma device?
by Paul Sherfield 13 Sep '13

13 Sep '13

Hi al Has anyone tried or now anything about this this device, very small and very cheap! Can see designers/clients etc, using and quotingLab figures from it. http://www.nodechroma.com Not a lot of info on the site. Regards Paul Sherfield Telephone : + 44 1442 207626 Mobile: + 44 7899 906385 http://www.missinghorsecons.co.uk http://twitter.com/#!/missinghorse Apple Solutions Expert - Print & Publishing Member - UK TC130 Technical Advisory Group (ISO 12647 Printing Standards) UK Expert: ISO TC130/Working Group 13 on certification of printing standards Chair BPIF UK ISO 12647 Certification Steering Group Member - BPIF Technical Committee Lean and green? To save money and become a greener printer, see http://www.greenprinter.co.uk http://www.keeconsultants.com Reduce your carbon footprint http://www.1010uk.org This email and any attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of addressee. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, any disclosure, copying or other distribution is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete all copies from your system. Email may be susceptible to data corruption, interception and unauthorised amendment. We do not accept liability for any such corruption, interception or amendment or the consequences thereof. We do not accept liability for any action or inaction by the recipient as a result of advice or information contained within this email. >

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The Creative Gouge
by Martin Orpen 06 Sep '13

06 Sep '13

After nearly 10 years Adobe abandons its Creative Suite entirely to focus on Creative Cloud <http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/05/06/after-nearly-10-years-adobe-abando…> -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd

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Re: Soft Proofing with White Border
by Mike Strickler 06 Sep '13

06 Sep '13

You can test this empirically: The difference is dramatic. On a somewhat related note, if you are proofing for press, and the paper proof has a paper white simulation added to the background (i.e., printed with absolute colorimetric rendering intent), trim off all margins that are outside the job and show the naked bright white of the unprinted paper. If left on the proof the perception of the proof will be that of darkness and dinginess, as the eye takes its cue from the brightest "white" in the field of view. Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:27:43 -0400 > From: Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken(a)netbox.com> > To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Soft Proofing with White Border > Message-ID: > <CAL=8Xqt4AsdpFpFM3V6vDLcMParpRn79C0eP=HGeZH+R8B33dA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > It is recommended that when you soft proof an image on screen compared to a > print on white paper (or predicting the print on white paper), that you > have a minimum 1" white border surrounding the image on screen. Does anyone > know of a good link to a (preferably) non-profit web site that explains in > plain English why this is necessary? I need to supply a good reference for > it and the link I had been using has gone dead. > > Thanks! > Ken Fleisher >

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Re: Mac10.8 and photoshop icons flat
by David Wollmann 05 Sep '13

05 Sep '13

Hi John, nice to hear from you and thank you for your comments. Very much appreciated. David John Gnaegy; >> When displayed, the Finder does a match from the embedded profile to the display’s profile. > > Except apparently for Finder’s icon view (cmd 1) icon. Column and list view icons are matched to display profile, and column view preview is matched to display profile, but icon view icon doesn’t seem to be

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