July 2014 - colorsync-users

X-Rite EyeOne iSis with M1 option
by Roger Breton 14 Aug '14

14 Aug '14

Is there such thing yet? We have i1pro2 with M1 option. Couldn't it be just a firmware upgrade? After all, the iSis already has the same LED light sources as found on the i1pro2. Or, will we have to wait for a new "M1" iSis from X-Rite? Best / Roger

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Re: Easy $1M for a color scientist
by Henry Davis 23 Jul '14

23 Jul '14

> > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 13:56:47 -0500 > From: G Mike Adams <typhoon(a)correctcolor.org> > > Ben, > > You might want to go back and listen a little more closely... > > What Chopra is speaking of is "first person." He's speaking of > thoughts and ideas, not of observations. His point -- buy into it or > not -- is that there is no scientific explanation for consciousness. > Since all color is outside of us and observed; it comes into our > eyes, and then we perceive it, color science just doesn't apply. "Since all color is outside of us and observed; . . ." That is somewhat of an assumption as well. Henry

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Easy $1M for a color scientist
by Ben Goren 18 Jul '14

18 Jul '14

Well, the hard part would be collecting the money, but the challenge as stated would be easily met. Depak Chopra, a bestselling author and favored spiritual guru of Oprah Winfrey, is offering a million dollars to anybody who can offer a falsifiable biological explanation for any form of perception. He makes the offer in this two-minute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjgSJWtNE2E Seeing how many color scientists there are on the ColorSync list who have devoted their lives to that exact field, I'd love to see one of you land a very, very nice windfall. ...of course, the caveat: he's likely to wiggle out of paying by claiming some sort of quantum dualistic psychic energy force field as the "real" answer...but I'm guessing somebody here might have enough experience working with stubbornly ignorant undergraduates to get through even to Chopra. And, even if Chopra remains doggedly ignorant, this could still be a good opportunity to broaden public understanding of perception in general and color science in particular; as is so often the case in these sorts of things, the *real* audience might not be the person to whom your words are being addressed. Indeed, it may well be that the best use of the challenge would be a social media project for students. Cheers, b&

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Re: PM5 highlight problem
by Gerald Dunne 14 Jul '14

14 Jul '14

Problem solved. It was the GAMUT Mapping. Thank you to Refik and Alexey. This list continues to be an education and has saved what's left of my sanity once more. Kind regards Gerald On 14 Jul 2014, at 20:00, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 11, Issue 87, Message: 1 > (Refik Telhan) > 2. Re: PM5 highlight problem (Alexey Gribunin) > 3. Re: PM5 highlight problem (Andrew Rodney) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:22:23 +0300 > From: Refik Telhan <rtelhan(a)icloud.com> > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 11, Issue 87, Message: 1 > Message-ID: <CFE943B9.699EE%rtelhan(a)icloud.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi Gerald, > > Please check the Gamut Mapping setting. It should read "LOGO Colorful". If > for any reason GAMUT mapping has been set to either LOGO Classic or LOGO > Chroma Plus, you will see such highlight limits. I do not really know why > have these two legacy settings have been left in the software. The help file > say LOGO Classic is there for PM3 Compatibility and LOGO Chroma Plus is for > PM4 compatibility. > > Refik Telhan > OFSET YAPIMEVi > Istanbul, Turkey > > On 13.07.2014 22:00, "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > >> Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to >> colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. PM5 highlight problem (Gerald Dunne) >> 2. Re: PM5 highlight problem (Terence Wyse) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 13:21:34 +0100 >> From: Gerald Dunne <gerald(a)pixelbrush.ie> >> To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com >> Subject: PM5 highlight problem >> Message-ID: <27734259-6585-4B8E-A5AB-68FD162D2EEC(a)pixelbrush.ie> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Hi >> >> I'm a long term PM5 user and have been mostly happy (if occasionally >> frustrated) over several years. >> Recently my printer profiles have been giving me a grey flat tint across all >> highlights from about 220 RGB (about 15% grey). The rest of the range is very >> close to previous. >> >> A couple of weeks ago I replaced a printhead in my z3100 and so am having to >> replace my profiles. >> For some papers (fine art matt) the internal Z3100 profiling is OK, however I >> need the extra shadow detail for photo papers. >> For years I ran Profilemaker on Macs, but finally OS upgrades made me switch >> PM5 to a PC last year. All fine for about a year. >> Main PC is XP (service pack 3). Not connected to internet so no auto upgrades >> or viruses. Have also tried on a separate Windows 7 machine with same results. >> I have also created profiles using old measurements that were OK but are now >> also giving the same problem. So it does not appear to be the i1Pro (I have >> also run the diagnostics & all seems fine). >> I've double checked & is not a v4 profile problem. >> >> The only thing that seems to be a constant is the dongle (I have downloaded, >> un-installed and re-installed the HASP driver). >> >> Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated. >> >> I have started looking at Argyll as an alternative but need some time and a >> much clearer head to get into it properly. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Gerald Dunne > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 11:07:03 +0400 > From: Alexey Gribunin <Gribunin(a)unit.ru> > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: Re: PM5 highlight problem > Message-ID: <53C38197.6040608(a)unit.ru> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Hello Gerald! > >> I'm a long term PM5 user and have been mostly happy (if occasionally frustrated) over several years. >> Recently my printer profiles have been giving me a grey flat tint across all highlights from about 220 RGB (about 15% grey). The rest of the range is very close to previous. > > It seems you are using Logo Classic Gamut mapping. As I remember > correctly, the latest PM5 had a bug with this Gamut mapping. > Such problem was clearly visible even in ProfileEditor in Gamut view tool. > To solve the problem you need to recalculate profile with Chroma Plus or > ColorFull. > > Best regards, > Alexey Gribunin > UNIT Color Technologies > Moscow, Russia. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:08:46 -0600 > From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> > To: colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: PM5 highlight problem > Message-ID: <6C04309F-4380-4BA1-88DC-17E45394F1EC(a)digitaldog.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > If memory serves me, the differences in Logo Classic, Chroma plus etc only occur with a perceptual rendering intent so it might be useful to run tests without that RI. > > Andrew Rodney > http://www.digitaldog.net/ > > On Jul 14, 2014, at 1:07 AM, Alexey Gribunin <gribunin(a)unit.ru> wrote: > >> Hello Gerald! >> >>> I'm a long term PM5 user and have been mostly happy (if occasionally frustrated) over several years. >>> Recently my printer profiles have been giving me a grey flat tint across all highlights from about 220 RGB (about 15% grey). The rest of the range is very close to previous. >> >> It seems you are using Logo Classic Gamut mapping. As I remember correctly, the latest PM5 had a bug with this Gamut mapping. >> Such problem was clearly visible even in ProfileEditor in Gamut view tool. >> To solve the problem you need to recalculate profile with Chroma Plus or ColorFull. >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 11, Issue 88 > ***********************************************

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Re: PM5 highlight problem
by Alexey Gribunin 14 Jul '14

14 Jul '14

Hello Gerald! > I'm a long term PM5 user and have been mostly happy (if occasionally frustrated) over several years. > Recently my printer profiles have been giving me a grey flat tint across all highlights from about 220 RGB (about 15% grey). The rest of the range is very close to previous. It seems you are using Logo Classic Gamut mapping. As I remember correctly, the latest PM5 had a bug with this Gamut mapping. Such problem was clearly visible even in ProfileEditor in Gamut view tool. To solve the problem you need to recalculate profile with Chroma Plus or ColorFull. Best regards, Alexey Gribunin UNIT Color Technologies Moscow, Russia.

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Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 11, Issue 87, Message: 1
by Refik Telhan 14 Jul '14

14 Jul '14

Hi Gerald, Please check the Gamut Mapping setting. It should read "LOGO Colorful". If for any reason GAMUT mapping has been set to either LOGO Classic or LOGO Chroma Plus, you will see such highlight limits. I do not really know why have these two legacy settings have been left in the software. The help file say LOGO Classic is there for PM3 Compatibility and LOGO Chroma Plus is for PM4 compatibility. Refik Telhan OFSET YAPIMEVi Istanbul, Turkey On 13.07.2014 22:00, "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. PM5 highlight problem (Gerald Dunne) > 2. Re: PM5 highlight problem (Terence Wyse) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 13:21:34 +0100 > From: Gerald Dunne <gerald(a)pixelbrush.ie> > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: PM5 highlight problem > Message-ID: <27734259-6585-4B8E-A5AB-68FD162D2EEC(a)pixelbrush.ie> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi > > I'm a long term PM5 user and have been mostly happy (if occasionally > frustrated) over several years. > Recently my printer profiles have been giving me a grey flat tint across all > highlights from about 220 RGB (about 15% grey). The rest of the range is very > close to previous. > > A couple of weeks ago I replaced a printhead in my z3100 and so am having to > replace my profiles. > For some papers (fine art matt) the internal Z3100 profiling is OK, however I > need the extra shadow detail for photo papers. > For years I ran Profilemaker on Macs, but finally OS upgrades made me switch > PM5 to a PC last year. All fine for about a year. > Main PC is XP (service pack 3). Not connected to internet so no auto upgrades > or viruses. Have also tried on a separate Windows 7 machine with same results. > I have also created profiles using old measurements that were OK but are now > also giving the same problem. So it does not appear to be the i1Pro (I have > also run the diagnostics & all seems fine). > I've double checked & is not a v4 profile problem. > > The only thing that seems to be a constant is the dongle (I have downloaded, > un-installed and re-installed the HASP driver). > > Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated. > > I have started looking at Argyll as an alternative but need some time and a > much clearer head to get into it properly. > > Thanks in advance. > > Gerald Dunne

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PM5 highlight problem
by Gerald Dunne 13 Jul '14

13 Jul '14

Hi I'm a long term PM5 user and have been mostly happy (if occasionally frustrated) over several years. Recently my printer profiles have been giving me a grey flat tint across all highlights from about 220 RGB (about 15% grey). The rest of the range is very close to previous. A couple of weeks ago I replaced a printhead in my z3100 and so am having to replace my profiles. For some papers (fine art matt) the internal Z3100 profiling is OK, however I need the extra shadow detail for photo papers. For years I ran Profilemaker on Macs, but finally OS upgrades made me switch PM5 to a PC last year. All fine for about a year. Main PC is XP (service pack 3). Not connected to internet so no auto upgrades or viruses. Have also tried on a separate Windows 7 machine with same results. I have also created profiles using old measurements that were OK but are now also giving the same problem. So it does not appear to be the i1Pro (I have also run the diagnostics & all seems fine). I've double checked & is not a v4 profile problem. The only thing that seems to be a constant is the dongle (I have downloaded, un-installed and re-installed the HASP driver). Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated. I have started looking at Argyll as an alternative but need some time and a much clearer head to get into it properly. Thanks in advance. Gerald Dunne

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Re: White point readings - i1Pro2 vs. original
by John Lund 12 Jul '14

12 Jul '14

Hi Steve, Thanks for the response. I'm sure there is variation in how the two spectros calibrate - the tile on the iO table vs. the i1Pro2's tile. And yes, the former does get more dust & needs cleaning fairly frequently. But let me offer a bit more info, maybe this will help clarify my question: For a given media - Epson's Watercolor Radiant White, e.g. - the media WP measured by the original i1Pro *consistently* shows as L*97, and this is across charts measured this year and old ones from as far back as 7 years ago (same WP value even in CMYK profile created for ColorBurst RIP). Measuring the same media last month with my i1Pro2, the media WP reported is L*94. I get similar discrepancies measuring charts on other papers Granted that I haven't had it recertified lately, but it seems like my older spectro is performing pretty consistently, on this single measurement, anyway! My i1Pro2 also seems to be performing as it's supposed to; printing with profiles created with its measurements seems to work as expected. But soft-proofing with those profiles is way off. As I mentioned, I saw another poster on a different list claim that the current version of the software reports WP readings lower than those from same charts, same i1Pro2 spectro, but older version (v.1.3.2?) of i1Profiler. I don't know if this is true, I'm just noticing a problem as above & wonder if anyone else has seen this phenomenon. Oh yes, and both pass i1Diagnostics 4.1.0. Maybe this is unique to my setup, or maybe I'm unique by using both instruments. But it sure looks like more than just standard inter-instrument disagreement... John JWL Images Emeryville, CA On Jul 10, 2014, at 12:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 13:16:43 -0700 > From: Steve Upton <upton(a)chromix.com> > To: colorsync-users colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: White point readings - i1Pro2 vs. original > Message-ID: <F25499E0-3A7A-4B01-A26B-D05A1AF0F052(a)chromix.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:41 PM, John Lund <john(a)jwlimages.com> wrote: > >> Hello colorsyncers, >> >> I am seeing what looks like a bug in how media white point is reported when driving my i1Pro2 with the current i1Profiler (version1.5.4). Measuring charts of the same paper twice - once with i1Pro2 (MO), then again with my original i1Pro in an iO table - the first reading reports paper white point as L*94, while the second is L*97. This pattern seems to be consistent for the several matte papers I have read lately. >> >> I don't see significant differences in the results of printing with the two profiles, but obviously this effect plays havoc with soft-proofing. >> >> A poster on the Luminous Landscape forums described similar errant readings using an i1Pro2, and claims the problem went away after reverting to i1Profiler v.1.3. >> >> Before I go to that extreme, I wanted to ask here - has anyone else seen this? Is this a bug in the current software? (seems weird that the earlier i1Pro apparently is not affected) > > When the i1 is in the iO it uses different calibration patches, is it possible that one of them is really dirty & the instrument is calibrating differently? > > regards, > > Steve

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monitor
by Carlo Lavatori 11 Jul '14

11 Jul '14

Hallo list, I know is an obsolete question, but I need an advise on buying a new monitor, It's time I change my 10 years old Eizo CG21... thanks Carlo

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Re: Multiple postings
by tlabarbera 10 Jul '14

10 Jul '14

>>John Gnaegy <gnaegy(a)apple.com>: Great minds think alike, first thing I did. And...that did the trick...'-}} Thanks... Terrie tlbtlb(a)mail.com

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