September 2014 - colorsync-users

Re: Epson 10000XL scanner and i1 profiler
by Daniel Westcott 05 Sep '14

05 Sep '14

Hi Ernst, I can relate. I had to scrap my screen 737 about ten years ago--heartbreaking really. And I would go so far as to say the operator matters more than the scanner as long as it's a decent machine. I had the good fortune of learning from a dot etcher and it turned out to be a fabulous way to approach scanning and color. Perfect logic is meaningless without perfect perspective. Daniel Westcott daniel(a)westcott.us <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Ernst Dinkla <info(a)pigment-print.com> </div><div>Date:09/04/2014 1:51 AM (GMT-07:00) </div><div>To: Martin Orpen <martin(a)idea-digital.com> </div><div>Cc: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com </div><div>Subject: Re: Epson 10000XL scanner and i1 profiler </div><div> </div>Martin, The scanner tinkering was done before 2005. I sold some wet mount Nikon holders before they even were patented in the US by Grecco. I'm still curious whether he got the idea himself or did read my messages on the subject. For the limited scan work I do, customers and private work, the work done then still pays off. I have seen a steady decline in scan work, not only in my shop but in drum scanner shops too, since 2000. Hence the flow of secondhand drum scanners here in Europe and mainly big ones like the Heidelberg Linos, Screen, etc. I have a customer for printing that has an Aztek but he has his films scanned in Amsterdam, to keep that scanner up to date and in condition was more work/money than he expected. Considering a V700 now. In Amsterdam they were interested in his scanner for repair parts. I'm glad I did not go that route. One day the Nikon 8000 will fail, the V700 might go too. The last could be replaced. I'm looking forward to do more work with the high resolution cameras of tomorrow. 66 now so I shouldn't look back too much, not even for good but old technology. Two drum scanner manufacturers left in the world as far as I know and maybe a handfull drum scanner shops here in the Netherlands. I have seen better drum scans than I can make and I have seen worse drum scans, the operator counts too. Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots. -- Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla Grafische Techniek Quad, piëzografie, giclée www.pigment-print.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/daniel%40westcott.us This email sent to daniel(a)westcott.us

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Re: In search of a D50 Editing colorspace
by Rich Wagner 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 11:49:19 -0700, Steve Upton <upton(a)chromix.com> wrote: > The color science geek in me is a bit sad that it’s gone (made for a good demo sometimes). I also agree that unavailable rendering intents should be greyed out in working-space to working-space conversions. I filed this formally as a bug a long time ago, and was told it was “as designed.” Still makes no sense to me. —Rich Wagner

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The color of gray
by Peter Miles 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Hi List members. I'm in the process of doing some spring cleaning. I'm pulling out some my old ideas that around color that I haven't examined for a while and asking myself if they are really correct. I'd appreciate it if you would read the following and kindly point out any misunderstandings / half-understandings on my part. The Color of Gray I am a bit suspicious of my current ideas around the concept 'gray' after asking myself if the following was really true... "That in an editing RGB color spaces, such as AdobeRGB 1998 and ProPhoto RGB, that 'equal RGB pixel values equal gray'. QUESTION 1 My current understanding is that this statement is true. But they are gray only relative to the white point of the colorspace. Because AdobeRGB 1998 is D65 and ProPhotoRGB is D50 the color of ProPhotoRGB 'gray' is different to the color from Adobe RGB 1998 'gray'. I attempted to test this (expecting to fail) by making up some gray ramps in photoshop in both ProPhotoRGB and AdobeRGB. I wasn't too surprised to see no color difference between the grays of ProPhotoRGB and AdobeRGB 1998. My understanding for this failure to see a difference is that the 'whites' of both colorspaces are being scaled relatively colorimetrically to my monitors white. Is this right? QUESTION 2: So am I correct in the following My Eizo monitor being set to 5000K will show me the color of the gray in ProPhotoRGB (D50 white) more or less correctly, in an absolute sense. And when my Eizo monitor is set to 5000K, the monitor color displayed for my AdobeRGB 1998 grays is incorrect. In an absolute sense. In that the grays will be displayed warmer than they should be given that Adobe RGB white is D65. QUESTION 3: I'm not near my printer to test this just now, but I'd expect AdobeRGB 1998 and ProPhotoRGB gray to print gray with different color with absolute colorimetric rendering? Thanks for your time. Regards Peter Miles

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Epson 10000XL scanner and i1 profiler
by Peter Miles 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Hi List members. I have an epson 10000XL flat bed scanner. I made a reflection scan ICC profile with i1profiler and an xrite color checker chart as a target. It's an improvement on the factory defaults for sure. Question1: i1profiler question Is there any way for me to use a custom measurement of my actual color checker cart rather than i12profiler defaults? Or are the are the default target measurements not likely to differ that much from my color checker chart? Question2: Epson 10000XL problem (a little Off Topic) I am scanning textured water color paper. However my My Epson 10000XL reflection scanner in no-color-adjustment mode is clipping some whites values, so I'm not able to acquire the scan of the textured paper with all the paper surface details intact. Is looks to me like a scanner hardware/firmware issue as there seems to be no setting available to reduce the basic exposure in no-color-adjustment mode. Anyone else with a Epson10000XL? Is this just my scanner? Maybe there is some calibration strip cleaning / re-calibration thing I can do to the 10000XL to stop the white-clipping? Your advice appreciated Regards Peter Miles

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In search of a D50 Editing colorspace
by Millers' Photography L.L.C. 03 Sep '14

03 Sep '14

Does this statement below confirm ProPhoto RGB is D50? Or is it D65? On Sep 3, 2014, at 12:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: A key point that many seem to have missed: > With ICC profiles, ALL editing spaces are effectively D50, including sRGB. > If you examine for example the sRGB profile, you'll find that it converts > device values to D50 colorimetry. David B Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. dba Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center Bellingham, WA www.spinnakerphotoimagingcenter.com 360 739 2826

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Selected VanGogh paintings
by Roger Breton 03 Sep '14

03 Sep '14

I was (pleasantly) surprised, today, to find that the VanGogh Museum, in the Netherlands, is offering digital reproductions of VanGogh's painting on its web site. http://www.vangoghmuseum.com/en/whats-on/collection-highlights 6000x6000 pixels resolution a pop, not bad at all. And the cherry on the icing is that each RGB document comes with an embedded ICC profile -- victory! Now that is going to give anyone plenty of reasons to have one's monitor calibrated :-) / Roger

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Imaging colorimeters: recommendations, experiences?
by Chris Cox 02 Sep '14

02 Sep '14

It looks like I need an imaging colorimeter for one of our projects. I haven't used one before, and don't know much about the companies that make them.? But I need pretty good XYZ or L*a*b* values read out on a lot of swatch samples that currently defy all other devices for color measurement. Yes, it is a specialized device, and yes most of the readers have no idea what I'm talking about - don't worry about it. Anyone have any recommendations, or experiences with imaging colorimeters or their makers ? And any guidelines on their prices? (because one thing all the manufacturers have in common, is horrible websites) If you need to reply off-list, that's fine too. Thanks, Chris

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Re: The color of gray
by Peter Miles 02 Sep '14

02 Sep '14

Florian Höch wrote > because around a decade ago Adobe decided they would > no longer support absolute colorimetric for RGB display profiles (you > can select it, but it'll use relative colorimetric behind your back). It's starting to make sense!! Hmm.... With our Epson7900 printers, "AdobeRGB White" gets inked when we print Absolute colorimetric from photoshop. I did a quick check on the numbers. When I print using photoshops "Absolute colorimetric" into our Epson Premium Luster 260 (CMYK) printer colorspace, "AdobeRGB White" gets sent to our RIP as 0,1,2,0 CMYK . So Judging by both the CMYK numbers I'm getting for "AdobeRGB White", and how the resulting print hues looks _very_ similar to my 5000K monitor when the print is viewed in a GTI viewing booth, it would appear.... That with the printer colorspace profiled as a CMYK space and Adobe doing the Absolute transform from AdobeRGB to the printer colorspace, what I effectively get is a relative colorimetric transform from AdobeRGB's D65 white into D50 white, followed by an Absolute Colorimetric transform from this D50 space into the CMYK printer color space. BUT... I would expect that if the printer colorspace were to be profiled as an RGB space, then the same Adobe "Absolute Colorimetric" print pipeline would result in "AdobeRGB White" remaining un-inked on the print. And so the print would then take on a colder appearance compared with me having via a CMYK printer profile. Because now, with an RGB profile as the destination, it would be Relative Colorimetric all the way to the cold paper white of Epson Premium Luster 260. Gosh! I think the fog is lifting at last! Thanks everyone for the great feedback. Regards Peter Miles

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Re: Epson 10000XL scanner and i1 profiler
by Martin Orpen 01 Sep '14

01 Sep '14

On 31 Aug 2014, at 17:52, Ben Goren <ben(a)trumpetpower.com> wrote: > And that's all assuming you're limiting yourself to the Canon 5DIII. If you're doing oversized high-resolution art reproduction for commercial work, you're going to be using much higher resolution gear, and at least in medium format. There're many off-the-shelf offerings of at least 80 megapickles, and your budget is the only limit past that. See my previous post for the *requirements*. I’ll add that I think that high resolution capture using medium format is also seriously deficient because of moiré issues. An example that comes to mind is photographing bird feathers. If you stick them in front of a studio back that can capture <250MB RGB files and take close up shots, take a detailed look at the individual barbs. I’ve found the weirdest artefacts generated by the cameras — bands of in- and out-of-focus image (in a sharp shot) or patterning like tiny little swastikas instead of real detail. Stick them on the Lanovia’s scanner bed and you get exactly what you’re expecting — sharp detail without moiré issues. Artwork for me includes stuff like etchings, engravings, woodcut and linocut etc. 300 dpi capture and funky anti-moiré issues aren’t good enough. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd

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