December 2015 - colorsync-users

FOGRA39 CMY-only profile (no black)
by Jorge . 09 Jan '16

09 Jan '16

I am looking for a CMY-only (no black ink) profile that uses FOGRA39, for the purpose of converting colors from an arbitrary color space in RGB or CMYK to another in CMYK, keeping colors as faithful as possible to the original without using any black ink whatsoever, and prints somewhat reliably on an average printer (being in Europe, I assume FOGRA39 is a sensible average target). Or, better yet, I would like to know how to create one myself with a software that is free as in beer, so that I can have several with different maximum total ink. Ideally, that software would run on Mac OS X. I have never created a profile and I am not one bit familiar in what it involves and what I should be sure to doublecheck. I stumbled onto Argyll’s fakeCMY (http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/fakeCMY.html) the description of which sounds somewhat related to what I want, but not quite so: > This tool is a means of producing a CMY to CMYK separation. A fake CMY profile is created from the output of fakeCMY, and this is then linked to the original CMYK profile using collink, to create a separation containing the desired black generation. That actually sounds the reverse of what I want to do. It also seems to hint that the final purpose is producing a device link profile, but I do not think that is what I need since I want to be able to convert from arbitrary color spaces (I have never dealt with device link profiles either). And, at any rate, I would not know what to do with a .ti3 file afterwards. Alternatively, (or additionally, to be able to compare if anything) I would like to find/create a CMYK using FOGRA39 that uses a strong UCR-like separation so that black is ideally used only on neutral values. Any hints or sources or where to go?

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Multi-color ICC profiles
by Roger Breton 06 Jan '16

06 Jan '16

Hi all, I'm looking for sample multi-color ICC profiles, for educational purposes. I have not had the opportunity for profile a printing press this way yet myself :( If you happen to know a link where I could find some, please, let me know. Or if you have one you can share. Thank you so much in advance, / Roger Breton

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Re: Multi-color ICC profiles
by Mike Strickler 26 Dec '15

26 Dec '15

The Esko system referenced below does not use ICC profiles, but rather a collection of 4-color lookup tables, based, like ICC profiles, on measured charts. A true n-color ICC profile is a different creature. Whatever system one uses, the complications come in when dealing with designs in which spot colors gradate and interact with each other and with process colors in overprints and blends. Where existing CMYK+spot color designs must be converted, this must all be sorted out by the software. I touched on this matter in my recent presentation on extended-gamut printing for packaging at the PIA Color Conference. The slides can be downloaded here: https://vip.soonr.com/1/filelink/bup3i-bihm4mo-zpnkxo5i#/file/ViewFile.acti… The Pantone Extended-Gamut Process Guide is not intended as a separation table but rather as a designer's guide for previewing possible limitations of the process, assuming one will be printing with a similar 7C system. The exact builds depend on all the usual system variables--ink, paper, screening, etc. These can only be derived from teh actual print condition, normally by profiling the press. In any event, having the correct n-color breakdowns may not be nearly sufficient, as explained above. Season's Greetings, Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services On Dec 24, 2015, at 12:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 20:30:44 +0000 > From: "Printservices, SF" <sf.printservices(a)landor.com> > To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Multi-color ICC profiles > Message-ID: <D2A042A6.4A3DD%sf.printservices(a)landor.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi, > > I know from first hand experience that Frito Lay has been using an > expanded gamut process for several years. > Here are some links to current vendors using an expanded process color > workflow: > http://www.sgsintl.com/solutions/brandcont/extgamut.html > http://www.robbieflexibles.com/Solutions/Capabilities/Printing---Converting > .aspx > > Example of Green Giant packaging using Expanded process printing is on > page 28 of this article: > https://www.flexpack.org/ACHIEV/2015_Awards/InnovationShowcase.pdf > > Discussion going back to 2010: > > http://printplanet.com/forum/prepress-and-workflow/color-management/8710-hi > gh-fidelity-printing > > Thanks, > Gary Scott > Xerox Client Ops, Graphics II > On Site @ Landor > 1001 Front Street | San Francisco, CA 94111 United States > 415-365-4418 work | 415-370-6619 cell > landor.com <http://landor.com/> | SF.PrintServices(a)landor.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 20:58:49 +0000 > From: "Printservices, SF" <sf.printservices(a)landor.com> > To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Multi-color ICC profiles > Message-ID: <D2A04ABE.4A405%sf.printservices(a)landor.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Esko has built their Equinox product around expanded gamut workflows. > https://www.esko.com/en/products/overview/equinox/overview/ > > Pantone has published Extended Gamut guides. > https://www.pantone.com/extended-gamut-coated-guide >

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RE: Multi-color ICC profiles
by Tyler Boley 23 Dec '15

23 Dec '15

Print Tao is primarily an interface that provides useful production tools, but uses the OEM screening to print. So it's not going to make good use of N channel profiles irrelevant of having a CMYK+ printer. After putting years into a 9900, Ergosoft RIP with individual channel control, both it's GPS N channel profiler and i1 Publishes N channel options, I have to give credit to the RGB to individual ink channel LUTs and screening in the black box Epson driver. The N channel approach for fine art photo inkjet was useful for niche processes, but standard color printing on quality inkjet coated media, the complexities of the process and the lack of superior results over the OEM screening, after years of tinkering, left me mostly with more gray hair. I don't recommend it unless doing unusual work, the Roland Davinci was a similar setup, and you can drive n channel HPs and Canons with that RIP (and others I'm sure) as well. I was totally committed to the idea that expert user control over everything about how the ink went down should yield superior results, and blew years and dollars on it. There seems to be a fundamental difference between the way a profile conversion builds new channels, based on years of color management practices carried over from CMYK work, and the way contemporary printer drivers build ink channels from RGB input, that was my conclusion... Bottom line for you though, without a full featured RIP you can't make use of multichannel control and profiling. --- Tyler Boley http://tylerboley.com/ http://www.custom-digital.com/ http://theagnosticprint.net/ --- > From: Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center > <spinnakerphotoimagingcenter(a)dnmillerphoto.com> > To: G Mike Adams <typhoon(a)correctcolor.org> > Cc: "'colorsync-users?lists. apple. com' List" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Multi-color ICC profiles > Message-ID: <D52DB826-433F-451F-A477-1F57225000E2(a)dnmillerphoto.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > My question is, can I use multi color .icc profiles with my workflow….and how? Printer is the Epson Pro 9900, printer software is LSI’s Printao 8. And I also print with LR 6.3 stand alone. > > I profiles with i1 Profiler and i1Pro version D. 1155 patches for paper profiling. > > David > > Millers’ Photography L.L.C. > David B. Miller, Pharm. D., member > dba > Spinnaker Photo imaging Center > 3809 Alabama Street > Bellingham, WA 98226-4585

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RE: Multi-color ICC profiles
by Louis Dery 23 Dec '15

23 Dec '15

Hi Roger, About Artios. do you mean ArtiosCad? If so, this is not the place to handle color management at all. I am also impressed that the printing shop (your client) let clients handle the 7 color conversion with their 7 color ICC profile. They have to be very careful on how they (clients) use it. Specially about soft proofing and color selection (reference color, image conversion, etc.). Louis Dery www.couleur911.com <http://www.couleur911.com/> couleur911(a)couleur911.com <mailto:couleur911@couleur911.com> > On 23 déc. 2015, at 12:34, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 12:34:40 -0500 > From: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca>> > To: "''colorsync-users?lists. apple. com' List'" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> > Subject: RE: Multi-color ICC profiles > Message-ID: <013001d13da8$33ac3960$9b04ac20$(a)videotron.ca <mailto:013001d13da8$33ac3960$9b04ac20$@videotron.ca>> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Perhaps I need to add a bit of context to my original post... > > You see, I may land a job with a printer who routinely prints packaging on an 8 color Roland offset press. > > As you may know, packaging is typically printed on, say, 20pts recycled board or SBS, using 50" and 56" wide 6 colors presses, with mostly CMYK and two spot inks. > > This particular printer claim they try to avoid printing with 6 colors to print instead with 7 colors, CMYK + RGB, for economic reasons. They say they developed a custom multi-color profile which they supply to clients who want to directly convert their artwork to their press in Photoshop. They handle the rest of their clients's jobs internally through their Artios system. > > What's interesting, to me, is that, from a production efficiency standpoint, by converting most jobs to this 7 color printing scheme, they effectively avoid wash-ups, reduce custom inks inventory and considerably reduce make-readies since they minimize the number of printing sequence change and can get a better utilization of press time overall. > > That's the context. > > I think they have an Artios kind of prepress system that possibly handles all their color management which I'm not familiar with. > > Their whole workflow raise a number of interesting points I'd like to investigate, with the limited tools I have at my disposal. > > I want to thank you all for your invaluable comments, so far. > > Best regards / Roger

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Re: Multi-color ICC profiles
by Mike Strickler 21 Dec '15

21 Dec '15

I have a bunch, Roger. You may contact me privately about this. Mike Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services On Dec 21, 2015, at 12:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 11:11:53 -0500 > From: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> > To: "''colorsync-users?lists. apple. com' List'" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Multi-color ICC profiles > Message-ID: <005601d13c0a$4e8f9ff0$ebaedfd0$(a)videotron.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi all, > > > > I'm looking for sample multi-color ICC profiles, for educational purposes. > > I have not had the opportunity for profile a printing press this way yet > myself :( > > > > If you happen to know a link where I could find some, please, let me know. > > Or if you have one you can share. > > > > Thank you so much in advance, > > > > / Roger Breton > > >

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