February 2015 - colorsync-users

BridgeCC & PhotoshopCC 2014: Grayscale images displaying differently.
by Peter Miles 24 Feb '15

24 Feb '15

On my color managed EizoCG224W monitor, I noticed that deep shadows in my grayscale PSD images are displaying darker in Bridge than they do in Photoshop. To confirm what I was seeing I made a solid dark gray sRGB square (RGB 22 22 22) in Photoshop and saved it. I got the Bridge square and the Photoshop square side by side on the same monitor and measured it with DigitalColor Meter set to "RGB as Actual Value". [Applications/Utilities/DigitalColor Meter] It showed my Eizo monitor was getting RGB 22,22,22 to display the Photoshop square but was been given RGB 17,17,17 to display the Bridge square (on the same monitor). That seems to confirm the darker view I am seeing on my Eizo. I also get the same results with a GrayGamma 2.2 square. However... I then tested four other staff Mac workstations. Three were dual-monitor workstations and one was an iMac. All these Macs are color managed. XRite i1display3. The iMac and one of the monitors on a dual-Monitor machine displayed the square the same in Bridge and Photoshop, but for the rest of them they displayed the square with varying differences. If you have the chance can some List members try this RGB 22,22,22 square comparison between Bridge and Photoshop and let me know if you can either see or measure a difference. I have a more detailed report of the problem on the Photoshop family feedback page http://tinyurl.com/njdmsve . If you do have the same problem, can you click the 'me to' button on the report page. Love to get this one solved. Or if you have any suggestions of things I could try, feel free to chime in. Thanks for your help Peter Miles

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Silly question department, Display Media White Point
by Roger Breton 23 Feb '15

23 Feb '15

Dear List members, I am probably rusted beyond hope but I am having difficulty interpreting the MediaWhitePoint Tag? You see, in both Input and Output profiles, the Tag is encoded with the actual device XYZ colorimetry but not in the case of a Display profile. Was there a time where this wasn't so? I have three recently created monitor profile that all read normalized D50 XYZ under the MediaWhitePoint Tag, 0.96420 1.0000 0.82520. Why would the MediaWhitePoint be encoded differently for Displays? Silly questions department. Best / Roger

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Re: Silly question department, Display Media White Point
by Mark Stegman 22 Feb '15

22 Feb '15

Andrew, I have seen your video and I do have some issues with it but I'll have to let it pass for now. I know what you are getting at as I have worked with a multitude of devices over the years. All I am saying is what I see in high volume production houses. Not art houses. In general, I do not have an issue with the validity of your method but I still don't understand why you want to work in a colour space that hardly any device can reproduce including wide gamut monitors. > > I find the main reason people use AdobeRGB is because they have been told > > bigger is better. > > Depending on the output, it most certainly is! That's exactly what I'm saying however, most of the high volume digital printing devices do NOT have a wide gamut. We're not talking about 11 or 12 colour inkjet printers here or even about contract proofing. > I've got the prints to prove it. ...and so have I but I was also talking about the relevance to cross media publishing where the primary concern is some sort of consistency across the different platforms, not getting the most 'faithful' or most colourful rendering. In this environment you are constrained by the 'lowest common denominator'. The priority here is that the images are 'good enough' to match across a host of devices, some colour managed, some not, that will be viewed under a range of conditions. It's a bitter pill to swallow for those of us who have put so much into making ICC colour management work but that's the way it is. Not the way we would like it. I've got a file to prove it to (question, do you have an output device > which will greatly suffer using sRGB)? You can prove it to yourself with > the file and a decent output device: > Done it many times over. I also have devices on which these wider gamut spaces are just wasted. > > The benefits of wide gamut working spaces on printed output: > NOT including high-speed commercial offset. > > This three part, 32 minute video covers why a wide gamut RGB working space > like ProPhoto RGB can produce superior quality output to print. > > All well and good but the problem is that high volume production houses do not have the time for it. They are already an endangered species. They want OPTIMUM quality that is predictable and consistent on a range of devices, not necessarily 'high' quality, at least not as we know it. Their margins are already paper thin (pardon the pun). It's just not an option for economic viability. How many newspapers would do this? They just dismantled the biggest presses here and literally sent them for scrap! It's called 'horses for courses'. Remember, I'm not talking about high quality photographic prints of archival quality. Relatively speaking, that's a niche market. In summary, a system is only as good as it's weakest link. If it was hi-fi sound you would not connect $10k speakers to a $50 amp. Most images aren't even being shot on what we would consider pro equipment these days. Our 'entry level' CANON 5Ds has supplanted the medium format studio cameras because the majority of the images either go online and or into a catalogue printed on coated toilet paper. The means has to be justified by the end result. Regards, Mark

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Curves displayed in i1Profiler
by Roger Breton 19 Feb '15

19 Feb '15

As you can see, I'm up to the wazoo with i1Profiler display calibration facilities these days. I should have opened my loud mouth before and tell X-Rite to have a heart and add some kind of radio button option in the interface, when displaying calibrated video curves to the user, after profile creation, to allow a choice of white or gray background on which to observe the curves as opposed to that horrible solid black? Try to inspect a few pixel wide lines of green, blue and red against a black background. Sorry, I can't colors discriminate that well. / Roger

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i1Profiler display measurements
by Roger Breton 19 Feb '15

19 Feb '15

Hi list, I have not had much luck finding the measured display colorimetry using i1Profiler? The software allow creating wonderful monitor profiles but the data seems nowhere to be found. I have hunted all the directories I could think of to no avail. The data seems to be incorporated into the resulting monitor profile but I would not know how to extract it. Best / Roger

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i1Profiler scanner module is very picky about file
by Randy Zaucha 12 Feb '15

12 Feb '15

Thanks for the instruction list Roger.It is so sad that when you pony up good money for software that they do not give you COMPLETE instructions to perform ALL the procedures you bought it for. Does anyone actually try to perform the procedure before releasing the software? For example, while i1 Profiler makes great profiles, I had no warning that it would arbitrarily lose the format of the profile targets. I had to spend the time (gee, what's my time worth?) to figure out the bug...which does not seem to be fixed in the next update. Ever try to get work writing manuals for companies who make the software you use? The HR department gives you the cold shoulder. Having actual product experience is subordinate to having a degree from bad manual writing school. Hard to believe, but true. I once had one HR guy at a LOCAL company actually tell me "If we feel you are qualified, we will let you know!" Having extensive product experience and internationally sold technical books was not enough to qualify! Therefore, we have what Roger went through... Randy ZauchaManaged Color

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i1Profiler scanner module is very picky about file formats
by Roger Breton 12 Feb '15

12 Feb '15

When I try to load a Reference File, I keep getting the "Error reading from reference file" message? I have some hand-measured IT8.7 Reflective targets I would like to create scanner profiles from but no matter which one of the supported Target Type I select, i1Profiler stubbornly refuses my measurement file. I tried this on both the Mac and Windows version of the software to no avail. Any ideas anyone? I'm about to throw the towel. Best / Roger Breton

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Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 8
by Randy Zaucha 11 Feb '15

11 Feb '15

Yes, ideally you would like to make an iT8 target on the same material you are scanning. Measure it and make your own reference file.Randy Zaucha From: "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 12:00 PM Subject: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 8 Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: I1 profiler scanner profiles (Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center) 2. Re: I1 profiler scanner profiles (Derek Lambert) (Randy Zaucha) 3. Re: I1 profiler scanner profiles (Derek Lambert) (Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center) 4. i1 Profiler bug. Crashing on making scanner profile. (Derek) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 09:52:11 -0800 From: Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center <spinnakerphotoimagingcenter(a)dnmillerphoto.com> To: Derek Lambert <csync(a)colorforest.net> Cc: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: I1 profiler scanner profiles Message-ID: <CEA121D4-9A2B-4CBD-AF59-ABC7C79E78F3(a)dnmillerphoto.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I do create custom .icc profiles for my Epson Pro 750 with Silverfast scanning ware. Includes use of the cardboard 24 patch classic target and i1Profiler. Cheers David David B. Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. dba Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center Bellingham, WA www.spinnakerphotoimagingcenter.com 360 739 2826 > On Feb 9, 2015, at 11:55 AM, Derek Lambert <csync(a)colorforest.net> wrote: > > Can you make a scanner profiles using ColorChecker SG Target? > I1 profiler is crashing on me on windows 7-64 SP1, mac os 10.10.2 and 10.10.3. > > > ------ > Sent from Apple touch device > > Best Regards, > > Derek Lambert > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/spinnakerphotoimagi… > > This email sent to spinnakerphotoimagingcenter(a)dnmillerphoto.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:00:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Randy Zaucha <zbet66(a)yahoo.com> To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: I1 profiler scanner profiles (Derek Lambert) Message-ID: <836742564.2667534.1423591232204.JavaMail.yahoo(a)mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes, you can but ideally you would like your profiling target to be of similar material to what you are scanning so if you are scanning prints, you want a color printed IT8 target. For art, a Colorchecker would suffice.Try to use a custom measured reference file for your target too for extra accuracy.Randy ZauchaManaged Color From: "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Sent: Monday, February 9, 2015 12:00 PM Subject: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 7 Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. I1 profiler scanner profiles (Derek Lambert) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 14:55:54 -0500 From: Derek Lambert <csync(a)colorforest.net> To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: I1 profiler scanner profiles Message-ID: <CDBB17E5-3A92-437A-A930-49E354EF7EE2(a)colorforest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can you make a scanner profiles using ColorChecker SG Target? I1 profiler is crashing on me on windows 7-64 SP1, mac os 10.10.2 and 10.10.3. ------ Sent from Apple touch device Best Regards, Derek Lambert ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Colorsync-users mailing list Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 7 ********************************************** ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 10:04:24 -0800 From: Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center <spinnakerphotoimagingcenter(a)dnmillerphoto.com> To: Randy Zaucha <zbet66(a)yahoo.com> Cc: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: I1 profiler scanner profiles (Derek Lambert) Message-ID: <7F092E3A-ECC3-4F45-98CF-4885C4BBD946(a)dnmillerphoto.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Randy, are you suggesting an IT8 target printed onto the surface of the paper or canvas, as the target to be scanned? David David B. Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. dba Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center Bellingham, WA www.spinnakerphotoimagingcenter.com 360 739 2826 > On Feb 10, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Randy Zaucha <zbet66(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Yes, you can but ideally you would like your profiling target to be of similar material to what you are scanning so if you are scanning prints, you want a color printed IT8 target. For art, a Colorchecker would suffice.Try to use a custom measured reference file for your target too for extra accuracy.Randy ZauchaManaged Color > From: "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Sent: Monday, February 9, 2015 12:00 PM > Subject: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 7 > > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. I1 profiler scanner profiles (Derek Lambert) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 14:55:54 -0500 > From: Derek Lambert <csync(a)colorforest.net> > To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: I1 profiler scanner profiles > Message-ID: <CDBB17E5-3A92-437A-A930-49E354EF7EE2(a)colorforest.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Can you make a scanner profiles using ColorChecker SG Target? > I1 profiler is crashing on me on windows 7-64 SP1, mac os 10.10.2 and 10.10.3. > > > ------ > Sent from Apple touch device > > Best Regards, > > Derek Lambert > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 7 > ********************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/spinnakerphotoimagi… > > This email sent to spinnakerphotoimagingcenter(a)dnmillerphoto.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:09:13 -0500 From: Derek <colorforest09(a)gmail.com> To: ColorSync User List List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: i1 Profiler bug. Crashing on making scanner profile. Message-ID: <F794EE24-B46C-45E7-84AF-49B42AB15CA1(a)gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There is a bug in i1 Profiler that prevents making a scanner profile if your white patches are over 245,245,245. If you have i1 Profiler dongle you can see for yourself that it will crash when you try to make a scanner profile with this attached link to scanned ColorChecker SG target. http://208.125.2.51/_n9Hnobd0vmGZQR <http://208.125.2.51/_n9Hnobd0vmGZQR> I am posting this here to give more incentive for Xrite to fix this asap. Derek Lambert ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Colorsync-users mailing list Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 8 **********************************************

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Re: i1 Profiler bug. Crashing on making scanner profile.
by Alexey Gribunin 11 Feb '15

11 Feb '15

Hello, Derek! > There is a bug in i1 Profiler that prevents making a scanner profile >if your white patches are over 245,245,245. > I am posting this here to give more incentive for Xrite to fix this asap. Yes, you are right! I have the same situation - i1Profiler makes very good profiles from Digital ColorChecker SG Target if there are no patches with RGB values greater than 245,245,245 and crashes if there are patches brighter than these values. If you need to build a profile from file with such bright patches, then there is a good way round - using AgyllCMS. It also makes very good scanner icc profiles. REALLY GOOD! First of all, it's necessary to make your own ColorCheckerSG.txt. It's simple step and it's described in manual. Then I'm using batch file with something like that: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Start /b /wait bin\scanin -a -m Target.tif Ref\ColorCheckerSG.cht Ref\ColorCheckerSG.txt Start /b /wait bin\colprof -v -D"Target.icm" -qh -ax -u "Target" pause ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: PS: personally, I'm using drag-n-drop batch file for simple dropping of tiff file on it. So my real batch file is little bit longer, but the main commands are the same. If somebody need it, I can share it. Best regards, Alexey Gribunin, UNIT Color Technologies, Moscow, Russia, tel.(+7-495)-748-09-04, e-mail: gribunin(a)unit.ru http://www.colorart.ru

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i1 Profiler bug. Crashing on making scanner profile.
by Derek 11 Feb '15

11 Feb '15

There is a bug in i1 Profiler that prevents making a scanner profile if your white patches are over 245,245,245. If you have i1 Profiler dongle you can see for yourself that it will crash when you try to make a scanner profile with this attached link to scanned ColorChecker SG target. http://208.125.2.51/_n9Hnobd0vmGZQR <http://208.125.2.51/_n9Hnobd0vmGZQR> I am posting this here to give more incentive for Xrite to fix this asap. Derek Lambert

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