July 2015 - colorsync-users

Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 80
by Mike Stewart 07 Jul '15

07 Jul '15

Jan-Peter: Thanks for the reply. We usually receive stock from the printer themselves and as such we don't have much or any say in the stock used for final printing. As you say, with uncoated stocks high in OBA's; not too many stocks actually fit within ISO specifications for either coated or uncoated. We proof on the actual stock using an Indigo press. Since the inks used on the Indigo do not match the colourants of ISO specified printing inks; we must use colour management to simulate the outcome on these out of spec. papers. Seems like the Idealliance is going the route of substrate calculated data; and it looks to me like Fogra is still possibly going the individual ICC profile route. I may be wrong; but that is my perception. I have followed the Fred15 Project from its inception and actually have made use of the Fogra52 profile where and when paper stocks fall within the Fogra52 numbers. If we use Fogra52 to manage colour on stocks that fit within its tolerances and print a colour bar on each proof - what do I tell the printer what specification I have printed to and how do I prove it via the colour bar on each proof? I don't believe that Fogra52 has actually been officially released; but it does work quite well for those papers falling within its tolerances. i have a database of over 130 uncoated stocks we are currently proofing on for Asian, European and North American printers we currently deal with. The paper white of these stocks varies. Some will fit within Fogra47 and others within Fogra52. Most are somewhere in between - what do I do with those? That's where the substrate calculator comes in handy; but obviously I end up creating a new dataset and from there a new profile (if needed). How do I tell a printer my proofs are somewhere between Fogra47 and 52 and they shouldn't have any problems matching on press. I would have to send them the dataset (or newly made profile). Thanks - Mike Stewart On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:00 PM, <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: dealing with printers (Jan-Peter Homann) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2015 12:46:22 +0200 > From: Jan-Peter Homann <homann(a)colormanagement.de> > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: Re: dealing with printers > Message-ID: <559667FE.6060406(a)colormanagement.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Hello Mike, > You raise some interesting questions. From my personal point of view, a > workflow with substrate calculated data is currently fine for a inhouse > workflow, with proofing and printing in the same company or with a very > close cooperation between prepress provider and printer. > It does currently not fit the blind exchange of data and proofs based on > international standards (ISO) or international specifications (GRACoL, > PSO etc... ) > > ESpecially in the uncoated area, we have the case, that current > standards and specs are not addressing papers with a lot of optical > brighteners. > Instititutions like e.g. FOGRA / ECI are working intensive on this issue > and I guess also Idealliance. > > See e.g. http://www.eci.org/en/projects/fred15 scrool down and have a > look at FOGRA52 data > > Regards > Jan-Peter > > > > Am 17.06.2015 um 19:19 schrieb Mike Stewart: > > Now that we are moving to Substrate Calculated Data sets based on paper > > white; how on earth do we communicate this to printers. Before OBA's we > had > > GRACoL, Fogra47 - just to name a few. We would colour manage our proofs > to > > GRACoL or Fogra47 (or some print specification), place an Idealliance > > colour bar on each proof and the customer/printer could measure the > colour > > bar to see if we were in compliance or not to the particular > specification. > > > > Now we start from GRACoL Uncoated 2013, change the Paper White values, > > create a new Data Set and proof to the new data set. Our colour bar on > each > > proof now becomes useless as it will never match to the original GRACoL > > Uncoated 2013. How do we communicate this to a printer in Asia. How can > > they now trust our proofs. Do we give them a small single row Press Type > > Colour Bar that prints within the job itself and also give the printer > the > > specs. for that colour bar. If so, what are the specs. of that colour bar > > (C,M,Y,K,R,G,B, grey balance swatches, etc). Data for that file would > have > > to be colorimetric and not solid ink and dot gain values I'm guessing. > > > > Thanks > > Mike Stewart > > _______________________________________________ > > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > > Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/homann%40colormanag… > > > > This email sent to homann(a)colormanagement.de > > > -- > Homann colormanagement tel: +49 30 611 075 18 > Jan-Peter Homann mob: +49 171 54 70 358 > Herzbergstr. 55 www.colormanagement.de > 10365 Berlin mailto:homann@colormanagement.de > >

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dealing with printers
by Mike Stewart 04 Jul '15

04 Jul '15

Now that we are moving to Substrate Calculated Data sets based on paper white; how on earth do we communicate this to printers. Before OBA's we had GRACoL, Fogra47 - just to name a few. We would colour manage our proofs to GRACoL or Fogra47 (or some print specification), place an Idealliance colour bar on each proof and the customer/printer could measure the colour bar to see if we were in compliance or not to the particular specification. Now we start from GRACoL Uncoated 2013, change the Paper White values, create a new Data Set and proof to the new data set. Our colour bar on each proof now becomes useless as it will never match to the original GRACoL Uncoated 2013. How do we communicate this to a printer in Asia. How can they now trust our proofs. Do we give them a small single row Press Type Colour Bar that prints within the job itself and also give the printer the specs. for that colour bar. If so, what are the specs. of that colour bar (C,M,Y,K,R,G,B, grey balance swatches, etc). Data for that file would have to be colorimetric and not solid ink and dot gain values I'm guessing. Thanks Mike Stewart

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Evaluating black point
by Stefan Ohlsson 02 Jul '15

02 Jul '15

I use ColorThink or Babelcolor to evaluate the maximum black that a specific paper/printer combination can produce. But for those that don’t have those programs, is there a website where you can upload a profile and get a Lab-value of the black and white point of that profile? Best Stefan Ohlsson Projektor Utbildning AB Telefonvägen 30 SE-126 26 Hägersten Sweden www.korta.nu/profiler “Everything should be as simple as it can be, but not simpler." Albert Einstein

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