August 2015 - colorsync-users

Re: Edit a Profile
by Mike Strickler 11 Aug '15

11 Aug '15

Hi Bill, You can use PM5's profile editor to alter the proof--hard and soft--without changing the output separation. Elect to edit the device-to-Lab LUTs only, go to the Gradation dialog and put your curve in there. Afer a ittle trial and error you'll get the desired result. Call me if you have any further questions. Mike > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:27:54 -0700 > From: William Whitfield <billw(a)mlode.com> > To: ColorSync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Edit a Profile > Message-ID: <6AEF9870-D975-4819-B4FC-769193FBFED8(a)mlode.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > (If this double posts I am sorry) > Greetings - I am a flexo printer and I need an accurate profile for a stock that has a very high TVI - 1% gains to 22%. I checked TVI by both measuring the press piece with a Spectro/Densitometer and looking at the measurement data in ColorAnt. Both methods agree with the TVI number. > > I check the TVI in the profile by: > 1. Applying the profile to the reference file using ColorThink; Saving the results and looking at them in ColorAnt. > 2. Opening the profile in ColorThink and looking at Dot Gain under the Curves tab. > > Both methods indicate that the 1% gain in the profile is about 5%. > > While I have been able to make an accurate proof using a very highlight bump curve in CGS Tuner, I now need to adjust the profile so my customer can use it to soft proof the RGB files that are being created. > > I have a copy of Profilemaker 5.10 with editor and have made a few, failed, attempts to adjust my profile. > > How can one adjust a profile to meet my needs of a 1% gaining to a 22%? Or, how can I make iProfiler honor the true TVI in this profile? > > -Bill- >

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Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 96
by Mike Stewart 11 Aug '15

11 Aug '15

Bill: Thanks for the reply. CGS Oris Press Matcher can make use of the i1i0 table and the i1Pro2 using M1 mode. I am setting up colour managed Hot Folders in order to proof on an Indigo Press using stocks supplied by the printer. CGS has IT8 images formatted for their Press Matcher application and they work well. I want to be able to send the IT8 digital image to printers and have them print it, then send it back to me. I would measure the IT8 to determine and verify the print condition the printer has used. However, the same IT8 images used by CGS Press Matcher will not work measuring through i1Profiler 1.6.1. As you mentioned the IT8 has 1620 swatches and not 1617 as there are 3 extra white swatches. I can fiddle around with ColorPort and get the IT8 to measure in Profiler; but then I cannot import the measurement file into CGS Certified Web to create the report I require. I'm stuck with using and IT8-74 image (1620 swatches) to create my colour within the Hot Folders of CGS and another different IT8-73 image (928 swatches) to use for verification processes; either within Profiler or measured within CGS Certified Web. I think what bugs me most is that these images were created by xRite themselves and will not work in their own software. A few days of frustration and I can work with a "workaround". Thanks - Mike Stewart On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:00 PM, <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Standard spectral normalization practices? (Ben Goren) > 2. RE: Need a little input (Roger Breton) > 3. Re: Need a little input (Ben Goren) > 4. Re: Standard spectral normalization practices? (Graeme Gill) > 5. Re: Need a Little Input (William Whitfield) > 6. Edit a Profile (William Whitfield) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:13:48 -0700 > From: Ben Goren <ben(a)trumpetpower.com> > To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Standard spectral normalization practices? > Message-ID: <9E89F627-4230-40F3-8E16-66FA88364067(a)trumpetpower.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Aug 10, 2015, at 7:34 AM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com> wrote: > > > [I]n practical terms the illuminant standards are conveying > > the spectral shape, not any particular absolute level - after all, you > can > > change an illuminants intensity simply by the distance you are from it. > > You are therefore at liberty to normalize them in any way you want to > suite > > your given purpose. > > Thanks; I've tentatively come to that conclusion and I'm glad to get > confirmation. > > > This <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminosity_function> explains why > 555nm is > > the peak of the Y curve. > > ...and the choice of 1.0 for the value for the peak would therefore be > sorta arbitrary in the same sense that the choice of absolute illuminant > level is arbitrary, so long as you get your multiplication (and any > subsequent re-normalization) right, I presume? > > Makes sense. I've been mimicking what I've seen out of caution and it's > worked. Knowing I guessed right is nice. > > Thanks! > > b& > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 21:10:17 -0400 > From: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> > To: "'Mike Stewart'" <mstewart(a)embassygraphics.com>, > "'colorsync-users'" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: RE: Need a little input > Message-ID: <011301d0d3d2$7c0994e0$741cbea0$(a)videotron.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > The iO table idiosyncrasies is hell. It is beyond me how what you describe > is true but it is sadly the case. > Looks like the ideal instrument still does not exist. Perhaps the iSis2, > with M1 capabilities? > > As for the IT8.7/3, it has a lot less black samples than the .7/4. > > / Roger > > -----Original Message----- > From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com [mailto: > colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of > Mike Stewart > Sent: 10 août 2015 14:48 > To: colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Need a little input > > Hello there; One more question - this one regarding IT8 images (swatches). > I happen to be working on a series of "workarounds" with xRite and CGS > Oris. I'm wanting to build colour hotfolders within the newest version CGS > Oris Press Matcher (to colour manage an Indigo Press). I am using the xRite > i1i0 scanning table with the i1Pro2. I've gone this route because of the > M1 measurement capabilities. Seems as if CGS can make use of the IT8-74 > (1620 > swatches) to use within the RIP software; but CGS cannot use the i1i0 > scanning table with the i1Pro2 with their newest version of Certified Web. > xRite cannot measure the IT8-74 (1620 swatches) with their i1Profiler > version 1.6.1 software; but can measure the IT8-73 (928 swatches). I can > import the IT8-73 file into CGS Certified Web to ensure my proofs are > accurate. > > My question is this: Is there going to much difference between creating a > colour table using 1620 swatches and one using 928 swatches. If I could use > the 928 swatches (IT8-73) it would make my life a lot easier; but I do not > want to compromise colour in any way. > > Finally; I cannot believe that xRite cannot read/measure the IT8-74 (1620 > swatches) formatted by themselves for the i1i0 scanning table and the > i1Pro2. I have left that ugly little bug with their service/support dept. > > Thanks - Mike Stewart > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:54:30 -0700 > From: Ben Goren <ben(a)trumpetpower.com> > To: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> > Cc: 'colorsync-users' <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com>, 'Mike > Stewart' <mstewart(a)embassygraphics.com> > Subject: Re: Need a little input > Message-ID: <A118824C-5EE3-479A-8CBB-87C6D8C77738(a)trumpetpower.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Aug 10, 2015, at 6:10 PM, Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> wrote: > > > The iO table idiosyncrasies is hell. > > I vaguely remember some inventive soul creating an equivalent and > compatible device from LEGOs. Seems to me like there'd definitely be > interest in some sort of open source hardware design...I know I would > seriously consider something inexpensive that's "good enough." > > b& > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:49:58 +1000 > From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com> > To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com >> ColorSync" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Standard spectral normalization practices? > Message-ID: <55C970E6.4000908(a)argyllcms.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Ben Goren wrote: > > ...and the choice of 1.0 for the value for the peak would therefore be > sorta arbitrary > > in the same sense that the choice of absolute illuminant level is > arbitrary, so long as > > you get your multiplication (and any subsequent re-normalization) right, > I presume? > > The value at 555 is 1.0 so that the definition of a lumen being 1/683 of a > watt works. > > Graeme. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:13:05 -0700 > From: William Whitfield <billw(a)mlode.com> > To: ColorSync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Need a Little Input > Message-ID: <48D1CC5F-F7A1-419C-B285-677B48F696D8(a)mlode.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > When you say it will not measure, where / how does it fail? > > I also was having challenges reading charts, custom ones I made, in > iProfiler 1.6.1 on a Mac, using an iO table with and i1Pro2. Working with > X-rite I discovered that if your chart has the column letters parallel to > the long direction of the table all will read without incident. However > rotate the chart 90 degree, as I can with some of my custom charts, and you > may or may not have a successful read. > > That said, I printed out the iProfiler supplied IT8 .7-4 CMYK random > target and was able to read it in Dual Scan mode without incident. Do to > the size of this chart, it forces one to position it “correctly". > Interesting is that the chart I used only had 1617 patches, I could not > find one with 1620 patches. > > -Bill- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:27:54 -0700 > From: William Whitfield <billw(a)mlode.com> > To: ColorSync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Edit a Profile > Message-ID: <6AEF9870-D975-4819-B4FC-769193FBFED8(a)mlode.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > (If this double posts I am sorry) > Greetings - I am a flexo printer and I need an accurate profile for a > stock that has a very high TVI - 1% gains to 22%. I checked TVI by both > measuring the press piece with a Spectro/Densitometer and looking at the > measurement data in ColorAnt. Both methods agree with the TVI number. > > I check the TVI in the profile by: > 1. Applying the profile to the reference file using ColorThink; Saving the > results and looking at them in ColorAnt. > 2. Opening the profile in ColorThink and looking at Dot Gain under the > Curves tab. > > Both methods indicate that the 1% gain in the profile is about 5%. > > While I have been able to make an accurate proof using a very highlight > bump curve in CGS Tuner, I now need to adjust the profile so my customer > can use it to soft proof the RGB files that are being created. > > I have a copy of Profilemaker 5.10 with editor and have made a few, > failed, attempts to adjust my profile. > > How can one adjust a profile to meet my needs of a 1% gaining to a 22%? > Or, how can I make iProfiler honor the true TVI in this profile? > > -Bill- > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 96 > *********************************************** >

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Edit a Profile
by William Whitfield 11 Aug '15

11 Aug '15

(If this double posts I am sorry) Greetings - I am a flexo printer and I need an accurate profile for a stock that has a very high TVI - 1% gains to 22%. I checked TVI by both measuring the press piece with a Spectro/Densitometer and looking at the measurement data in ColorAnt. Both methods agree with the TVI number. I check the TVI in the profile by: 1. Applying the profile to the reference file using ColorThink; Saving the results and looking at them in ColorAnt. 2. Opening the profile in ColorThink and looking at Dot Gain under the Curves tab. Both methods indicate that the 1% gain in the profile is about 5%. While I have been able to make an accurate proof using a very highlight bump curve in CGS Tuner, I now need to adjust the profile so my customer can use it to soft proof the RGB files that are being created. I have a copy of Profilemaker 5.10 with editor and have made a few, failed, attempts to adjust my profile. How can one adjust a profile to meet my needs of a 1% gaining to a 22%? Or, how can I make iProfiler honor the true TVI in this profile? -Bill-

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Re: Need a Little Input
by William Whitfield 11 Aug '15

11 Aug '15

When you say it will not measure, where / how does it fail? I also was having challenges reading charts, custom ones I made, in iProfiler 1.6.1 on a Mac, using an iO table with and i1Pro2. Working with X-rite I discovered that if your chart has the column letters parallel to the long direction of the table all will read without incident. However rotate the chart 90 degree, as I can with some of my custom charts, and you may or may not have a successful read. That said, I printed out the iProfiler supplied IT8 .7-4 CMYK random target and was able to read it in Dual Scan mode without incident. Do to the size of this chart, it forces one to position it “correctly". Interesting is that the chart I used only had 1617 patches, I could not find one with 1620 patches. -Bill-

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Standard spectral normalization practices?
by Ben Goren 11 Aug '15

11 Aug '15

So, I'm getting my hands truly soaked with spectral color calculations for the first time, and I've noticed an oddity that I'm hoping somebody here might be able to clarify. The spectral data and formulas and what-no published by the CIE are explicitly and obviously standardized so that illuminants all have power = 100 at 560 nm. But the 1931 2° Standard Observer table is normalized so that y(lambda) = 1.000000 at 550 nm. And the 1964 10° Standard Observer is y(lambda) = 0.999110 at 550 nm, with nothing exactly equal to 1 (and 550 nm still the peak for y(lambda)). I would naively expect everything to be normalized for the same wavelength. Is there a reason why illuminants are normalized for 560 nm and the Standard Observer for 555 nm? Does it make a practical difference, let alone a real-world one? Thanks, b&

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Need a little input
by Mike Stewart 11 Aug '15

11 Aug '15

Hello there; One more question - this one regarding IT8 images (swatches). I happen to be working on a series of "workarounds" with xRite and CGS Oris. I'm wanting to build colour hotfolders within the newest version CGS Oris Press Matcher (to colour manage an Indigo Press). I am using the xRite i1i0 scanning table with the i1Pro2. I've gone this route because of the M1 measurement capabilities. Seems as if CGS can make use of the IT8-74 (1620 swatches) to use within the RIP software; but CGS cannot use the i1i0 scanning table with the i1Pro2 with their newest version of Certified Web. xRite cannot measure the IT8-74 (1620 swatches) with their i1Profiler version 1.6.1 software; but can measure the IT8-73 (928 swatches). I can import the IT8-73 file into CGS Certified Web to ensure my proofs are accurate. My question is this: Is there going to much difference between creating a colour table using 1620 swatches and one using 928 swatches. If I could use the 928 swatches (IT8-73) it would make my life a lot easier; but I do not want to compromise colour in any way. Finally; I cannot believe that xRite cannot read/measure the IT8-74 (1620 swatches) formatted by themselves for the i1i0 scanning table and the i1Pro2. I have left that ugly little bug with their service/support dept. Thanks - Mike Stewart

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CGATS and profiles
by Mike Stewart 10 Aug '15

10 Aug '15

Can I create an ICC Profile from i1Profiler 1.6.1 (on the Mac) using just a CGATS file. If not; what is the simplest way to create an ICC profile from a CGATS file. Thanks - Mike Stewart

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Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 92
by Mike Stewart 09 Aug '15

09 Aug '15

If so; how on earth do I do it? My one remaining brain cell isn't enough to work me through the i1 Profiler process (and the Help menu isn't too helpful). Mike Stewart On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 2:00 PM, <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. CGATS and profiles (Mike Stewart) > 2. Re: CGATS and profiles (Andrew Rodney) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2015 13:30:41 -0500 > From: Mike Stewart <mstewart(a)embassygraphics.com> > To: colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: CGATS and profiles > Message-ID: > < > CAFB95ou51Hx+k4xXhwHGvCcUDL-RuA+f7jtosCatKcSonCgtDQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Can I create an ICC Profile from i1Profiler 1.6.1 (on the Mac) using just a > CGATS file. If not; what is the simplest way to create an ICC profile from > a CGATS file. > > Thanks - Mike Stewart > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2015 12:45:24 -0600 > From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> > To: colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: CGATS and profiles > Message-ID: <7EE01C27-A1F4-4951-8EA8-A68CADBE1006(a)digitaldog.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > On Aug 5, 2015, at 12:30 PM, Mike Stewart <mstewart(a)embassygraphics.com> > wrote: > > > > Can I create an ICC Profile from i1Profiler 1.6.1 (on the Mac) using > just a > > CGATS file. > > Yes, that should work, assuming it's got the necessary measurement data. > > Andrew Rodney > http://www.digitaldog.net/ > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 92 > *********************************************** >

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