September 2015 - colorsync-users

i1Pro2 Problems
by Martin Orpen 06 Oct '15

06 Oct '15

Anybody having problems with their ageing i1Pro2 devices? I’ve got two here that can no longer be used for certifying proofs because they can no longer read the 100 C patch correctly :( The first is a 2012 purchase that has done 5292 strip reads and the lamp lit for 17,771 seconds. The second a 2014 purchase that has done 2070 strip reads and the lamp lit for 5,868 seconds. Another 2014 purchase that has only done 230 strip reads will pass the proofs. So will a 2011 i1 Pro that has done 9,994 strip reads and 31,981 seconds of lamp use! All pass the i1 Diagnostics tests. The proofers are calibrated using an ILS30 but when we are running at high output we can’t afford to waste time pausing and auto reading each proof — so have to switch to the i1s. It looks to me that the older the i1Pro2 gets the worse it gets at measuring 100% cyan — there are no problems with any other patches. Comparing the good and bad devices in ArgyllColorMeter shows that the spectral curve for cyan is an identical shape but offset slightly. Annoying that it only takes 15 months of relatively light use before the these devices become pre-press bricks :( -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd

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Re: CMY profiles with i1Profiler
by Mike Strickler 01 Oct '15

01 Oct '15

I1P has no problem with custom charts per se; I believe Terry's difficulty was in getting it to compute a profile from a data set that either lacks any CMY+K patches or has too few to satisfy i1P', which evidently errors out. I1P is not a true n-color solution; it wants to see a full CMYK set. (I have not tried making an RGB profile with it using C,M, and Y--maybe that also causes an error). Other profilimg applications have been designed to make profiles with any number or combination of colors and don't reqiure CMYK at all. Profilemaker Packaging was one. ColorLogic CoPrA (all versions) can make CMY profiles. It also should have no trouble using a chart with fewer-than-usual CMY+K patches. Mike Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 23:42:48 +0100 > From: Martin Orpen <martin(a)idea-digital.com> > To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: CMY profiles with i1Profiler > Message-ID: <077E6415-6FE8-4FA0-B35E-94ECC2E65C8E(a)idea-digital.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > >> On 29 Sep 2015, at 16:01, Terence Wyse <wyseconsul(a)mac.com> wrote: >> >> Unfortunately, i1Profiler needs to see some CMYK+K patches or it errors out. Tried adding a few K-only patches but that didn’t help. > > > Argyll’s targen & printtarg can generate CMY-only test data and charts in seconds. > > I know that you (really annoyingly) can’t import custom charts for scanner profiling, but surely i1Profiler must be able to import custom charts for printer profiling? > > -- > Martin Orpen > Idea Digital Imaging Ltd

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CMY profiles with i1Profiler
by Terence Wyse 29 Sep '15

29 Sep '15

Looking to develop a profiling chart for creating CMY-only profiles. Typical CMYK charts “waste” about half their patches on CMY+K combinations but I’d like to minimize the number CMY+K patches so I can maximize C+M+Y patches. Unfortunately, i1Profiler needs to see some CMYK+K patches or it errors out. Tried adding a few K-only patches but that didn’t help. Anyone know what the minimum number of CMY+K patches i1Profiler expects to see? Regards, Terry Wyse

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Konica-Minolta reselling the Sekonic at 3x the price as CL-70F
by edmund ronald 29 Sep '15

29 Sep '15

$2.5K - good markup, guys! http://scientec.fr/_autres/communication/Emailing/2015/CL-70F/CL-70F.html Edmund ᐧ

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Re: Art Duplication
by Don Hutcheson 25 Sep '15

25 Sep '15

You’re suffering from two main issues: 1. Metamerism failure - the colorChecker's pigments have no specific correlation to oil paints. This is exacerbated by your use of flash, which is a highly spikey light source, quite removed from the relatively smooth and continuous curves of D-50 and most standard lighting booths. 2. Profile creation software that’s aimed at pleasing color, not accurate color reproduction. Of all the art galleries I’ve trained to do art capture, the most successful (by far) were those I persuaded to use plain old hot, inefficient, but beautifully continuous-spectrum tungsten or halogen bulbs, suitably heat-filtered to avoid melting too much paint! And IMO the best camera profiling software for art capture is STILL MonacoPROFILER (R.I.P.) if you can get hold of it. Having said that, even with tungsten and a Monaco profile, Metamerism failure is still an inescapable reality, but your starting point would be much closer to a “Match”. FWIW ........................................................ Don Hutcheson, President HutchColor, LLC Washington, NJ USA don(a)hutchcolor.com M: 908-500-0341 ........................................................ On Sep 18, 2015, at 19:35 , colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Art Duplication (Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center) > 2. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 114 > (Millers' Photography L.L.C.) > 3. Re: Art Duplication (Ben Goren) > 4. Re: Art Duplication (Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center) > 5. Re: Art Duplication (Ben Goren) > 6. Re: Art Duplication (Robin Myers) > 7. Re: Art Duplication (Ben Goren) > 8. Re: Art Duplication (Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center) > 9. Re: Art Duplication (Ben Goren) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 12:25:06 -0700 > From: Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center > <spinnakerphotoimagingcenter(a)dnmillerphoto.com> > To: Louis Dina <lou(a)loudina.com>, gyaeger(a)mac.com, joel(a)joelmark.com, > John Castronovo <jc(a)technicalphoto.com>, Andrew Rodney > <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> > Cc: colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Art Duplication > Message-ID: <A58DB4FB-83B3-43D5-B588-03635955A52A(a)dnmillerphoto.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I thank everyone for their information and education. > > I use the Paul C. Buff, White-lightning Ultra1800, each flash tube is UV coated. Reflectors are 7 inches. Polarizing filter sheets are over each reflector. > > A Schneider B+W UV-IR-CUT filter is mounted first on EF 100 mm f/2.8 Micro L lens, and finally the circular polarizing filter. > > I might just see where some of my issues come in. Could it be the cardboard x-rite CC? (I refuse to use the passport CC). > > Workflow is camera white balanced with what is supposed to be a white target on one side, and black, gray, and white on the other side. These three shades are for me to determine, exposure. Then, I use the white only side to determine white balance in camera. > > Next I image the x-rite cardboard CC. Though, sometimes I have the cardboard CC included in the area along with the original art. > > I have two different ways I work with the RAW file. Open in RPP 64 and create the lighting-lens-camera profile with RPP 64. I set RPP 64 for Kodachrome 64. Save the digital file as an RGB TIFF16-bit (BetaRGB). I had been saving the file as Lab TIFF 16-bit. > > LR 6 is next, and sizing is done in PS CS5. > > I do my best not to change what is digitally captured, in order to preserve the likeness of the original art. > > The other way I have my workflow, use LR 6. LR 6 will blend multiple RAW’s in RAW. Skip RPP 64 altogether. > > Comments are made that the x-rite CC is not the same as the pigments in the original art work. Therefore I wonder if this may be an issue? > > Those using Einsteins’, what size reflector is used? > > Many years back, someone in the museum industry, on this forum, told me to use the Schneider B+W UV-IR-CUT filter. Anyone remember who that was? Anyone also using the Schneider B+W UV-IR-CUT filter? Might have been in regards to cobalt blue. > > An NEC PA271w, and an NEC PA2721w are profiled with i1Pro and i1 Profiler. Two separate work stations. The Epson Pro 9900 is profiled for each different substrate, with i1 Profiler and read with the i1Pro. > > EOS 6D’s are my cameras. > > Questions? > > Kind Regards, > > David > > > David B. Miller, Pharm. D. > 3809 Alabama Street > Bellingham, Washington, 98226-4585 > 360 739 2826, > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 12:31:10 -0700 > From: "Millers' Photography L.L.C." <digitalimaging(a)dnmillerphoto.com> > To: colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com>, > jonmeyer(a)grafixgear.com > Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 12, Issue 114 > Message-ID: <323103AB-553D-4447-A70C-7F3DD774918F(a)dnmillerphoto.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Jon, please describe in detail your method written below…….(1/5 exposure) and cross polarized (4/5) > >> On Sep 18, 2015, at 12:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: >> >> In addition to the previously stated, my 4x5 fine art repro days included a blend of specular directional (1/5 exposure) and cross polarized (4/5). This captured better brush stroke textures. >> Jon > > > > David B. Miller, Pharm. D. > 3809 Alabama Street > Bellingham, Washington, 98226-4585 > 360 739 2826 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 12:50:33 -0700 > From: Ben Goren <ben(a)trumpetpower.com> > To: colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Art Duplication > Message-ID: <0ADC5CB5-6FCC-4F1E-B464-541CB6E0AF73(a)trumpetpower.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Sep 18, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center <spinnakerphotoimagingcenter(a)dnmillerphoto.com> wrote: > >> Workflow is camera white balanced with what is supposed to be a white target on one side, and black, gray, and white on the other side. > > While some white balance targets are more spectrally flat than others, nothing, not even Spectralon, is perfectly flat. Click-to-white-balance relies on a nonexistent physical property. > > If you know the camera's spectral response and the spectrum of the illuminant, you can predict the correct per-channel scaling factors for white balance without even taking a picture. If you photograph a sample with a known spectrum, you can compare the predicted and actual RGB values to automatically fine-tune the white balance. And if you have a number such samples -- such as with an entire ColorChecker -- you can average them for even greater precision. Of course, this same process will normalize exposure as well. > >> Comments are made that the x-rite CC is not the same as the pigments in the original art work. Therefore I wonder if this may be an issue? > > They're not exactly the same, but, then again, there's variation across manufacturing batches, changes with time and exposure to the elements, and so on. For typical photographic purposes, the differences can typically be ignored. For critical work, you'll want to use your own measurements of your own chart. > > The original 8x10 cardboard ColorChecker is superb when you want a large, physically thin and flat reference, especially for normalizing white balance and exposure. The ColorChecker Passport is, hands down, the best chart for field use as well as the best small chart for profiling. The extra couple dozen patches on the new half both give you as big a gamut with as saturated colors as you're reasonably going to get with such a device as well as an excellent sampling of the neutral axis. The integrated case gives it as much durability as you can reasonably expect. I've dragged mine all over the Desert Southwest.... > > The two ColorCheckers serve different-but-overlapping purposes. If I could only have one, I'd easily go with the Passport. I have both and use both. > > I've made my own charts in the past. Were I continuing to use a profiling workflow based on reflective charts, I'd still use homebrew charts; you simply can't buy anything remotely in the same league as what you can make with a trip to the art store. But that workflow falls quite short of spectral modeling...and, as such, all I need charts for now are to fine-tune exposure and white balance. I can do that with a single patch better than you can with a click-to-white-balance, but it's just as easy to do it with an entire ColorChecker -- which gives negligibly fractional DE accuracy for colors near the neutral axis. Of course, the closer you get to the spectrum locus, other factors come into play.... > > Cheers, > > b& >

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art duplication
by Millers' Photography L.L.C. 24 Sep '15

24 Sep '15

What method to you use to polarize these light sources? > On Sep 24, 2015, at 12:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > > From: Ben Goren <ben(a)trumpetpower.com <mailto:ben@trumpetpower.com>> > Subject: Re: Art Duplication > Date: September 24, 2015 at 9:30:14 AM PDT > To: Ernst Dinkla <info(a)pigment-print.com <mailto:info@pigment-print.com>> > Cc: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > > > On Sep 23, 2015, at 6:03 AM, Ernst Dinkla <info(a)pigment-print.com <mailto:info@pigment-print.com>> wrote: > >> I have a 4 point >> light halogen setup but made a selection of the 4 lamps from about 10 >> lamps. > > I've found I get superbly uniform results with PCB stripboxes -- four of them in a square around the art, something like a giant ringlight, close to the plane of the art. > > http://paulcbuff.com/stripboxes.php <http://paulcbuff.com/stripboxes.php> > > Cheers,

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None
by Ted Walton 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

X Ted Walton Photographyy o. 619-448-1083 m. 619-233-3913 email: t-Walton(a)ztg.net

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How to convert from Lux to EV?
by Roger Breton 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

I have an old Minolta incident light meter I'd like to check against a fresh Minolta irradiance light meter. I searched around the net for an "authoritative" conversion equation but I seem to remember this being discussed on the List in the past. Would anyone have a suggestion? Best / Roger

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Sekonic C-700
by Roger Breton 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

I came across this device recently. Kept forgetting about checking its specs. Seems to pack a lot of interesting features. Anyone seen it? Used it? Has anything to say about it? http://www.sekonic.com/products/c-700/overview.aspx Best / Roger

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Re: Art Duplication
by Louis Dina 19 Sep '15

19 Sep '15

Thanks to everyone for your in-depth and thoughtful responses. I learned a lot and will implement many of your fine suggestions. Some recommendations are clearly beyond my means and my needs. Fortunately, I am not in the business of reproducing artwork professionally. (Whew…thank God!) But I have learned a few things which will make me better at what I do, so I am very appreciative. Regards, Lou

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