July 2016 - colorsync-users

Re: Gretag Sprectrolino/Spectrascan with measurement table
by joel＠joelmark.com 30 Jul '16

30 Jul '16

Hi, I have a dongle from ProfileMaker 4.1. Best regards, Joel Joel H. Mark, Photographer (323) 874-9907 www.joelmark.comDate: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 16:10:18 -0400 From: Jon Meyer <jonmeyer(a)grafixgear.com> To: Richard Booth <richbooth54(a)gmail.com> Cc: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Gretag Sprectrolino/Spectrascan with measurement table Message-ID: <3AD01894-3C16-49BB-8F77-47A87F3565CE(a)grafixgear.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Do you or any of the gang have a ProfileMaker dongle for sale? Jon Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 29, 2016, at 11:57 AM, Richard Booth <richbooth54(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I have a Gretag Sprectrolino/Spectrascan with measurement table in working > condition for sale. One owner, probably purchased around 1990-92. In > original case with all original parts, cable and chips. Used for measuring > color bar on Iris Realist proofs. If interested, email me at: > richbooth54(a)gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/jonmeyer%40grafixge… > > This email sent to jonmeyer(a)grafixgear.com

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Gretag Sprectrolino/Spectrascan with measurement table
by Richard Booth 29 Jul '16

29 Jul '16

I have a Gretag Sprectrolino/Spectrascan with measurement table in working condition for sale. One owner, probably purchased around 1990-92. In original case with all original parts, cable and chips. Used for measuring color bar on Iris Realist proofs. If interested, email me at: richbooth54(a)gmail.com

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Offset printing of black-and-white photographs in a page with abundant color
by Jorge . 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

Hi, When placing a black-and-white photograph in a page that will also have plenty of other photographs, illustrations and layout elements in color, part of a magazine that will be printed in offset, is there a rationale for preferring that gray values of that photograph are printed using only black ink or with a mix of all CMYK inks instead? The particular CMYK combination I mean is the one I would automatically get in the likes of Photoshop by converting the grayscale image to the target CMYK color space using ICC profiles. — Jorge

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RE: Offset printing of black-and-white photographs in a page with abundant color
by Roger Breton 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

It's not always convenient to systematically convert grayscale images to CMYK on output. In Prinergy, for instance, the ProcessTemplate's output DeviceLinkProfile (if that's what's being used) *has* to be GCR in order to get GCR-kind of conversion. It has pros and cons. Personally, I decided against systematically converting grayscale images to four-color images for jobs. If a customer wants GCR "grayscale" I'll gladly supply a heavy-GCR ICC output profile for converting in Photoshop. Depends on the job... / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Jorge . Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 11:49 AM To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Offset printing of black-and-white photographs in a page with abundant color Hi, When placing a black-and-white photograph in a page that will also have plenty of other photographs, illustrations and layout elements in color, part of a magazine that will be printed in offset, is there a rationale for preferring that gray values of that photograph are printed using only black ink or with a mix of all CMYK inks instead? The particular CMYK combination I mean is the one I would automatically get in the likes of Photoshop by converting the grayscale image to the target CMYK color space using ICC profiles. — Jorge

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Press calibration
by Randy Zaucha 20 Jul '16

20 Jul '16

If I were a steady client, I would try and get a consistent proofing system going. Leave it to them to match it on press. Most printing companies spend a lot on proofing systems and because we can measure color, we can usually make a decent simulation of the printing process. Of course it helps if they are able to make the RGB to CMYK conversion too. If not, then the onus is on you and most do not know how to properly color separate for a press.Randy ZauchaARC

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Xrite i1pro VS i1Display Pro for monitor calibration
by Steven Kornreich 19 Jul '16

19 Jul '16

I have an older i1pro and was wondering for just profiling monitors will the result be as good as the i1Display Pro. Using i1Publish software Thanks _________________________ Steven Kornreich steve(a)kuau.com http://www.kuau.com

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RE: How is a printing press calibrated and how much does it cost?
by Roger Breton 19 Jul '16

19 Jul '16

It is true that a closed-loop system brings huge expectations, again, from printers and experienced operators who fail to grasp the important aspects of offset lithography -- I can't speak for other printing processes. It is remarkable, in North America at least, in my humble experience, that the bulk of these systems are still predicated on controlling ink optical density. / Roger -----Original Message----- From: Mike Strickler [mailto:info@mspgraphics.com] Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 6:32 PM To: Colorsync Users List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Cc: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> Subject: Re: How is a printing press calibrated and how much does it cost? Perhaps, Roger. But maybe this attitude is partly born of the experience with traditional fingerprinting approaches, wherein the press is "studied" and its idiosyncrasies recorded for use in vaguely defined procedures for compensating for them. Best practices today involve measurement against industry specifications and immediate correction of deficiencies, again, premised on the idea that the offset press and inks is a relatively standardized system. Where we don't have a widely accepted standard, i.e., when printing with high-chroma inks and/or FM screening, or printing on plastics, a house standard can be made. But this is still an "active" approach rather than the "passive" one of merely characterizing and tracking over time, with occasional corrections made. My experience is that when this approach is explained and demonstrated there is much less resistance because the "gratification" is immediate. It is true that many presses ship with expensive closed-loop systems that don't always work as well as they should, and in these cases it can be very difficult persuading the company that something more needs to be done. I recently had a particularly unfortunate experience of this. On Jul 18, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> wrote: > Mike Strickler (wisely) wrote : > >> Dismiss any suggestion that an annual or semiannual "fingerprinting" >> or "certification" is what you need--these are quite close to worthless for assuring consistent color output. > > Yet... In my humble experience, the majority of printers are reluctant to systematically "study" the long term behavior of their equipment as they see this as a recognition that their million dollar equipment are inherently "deficient"? I'm constantly faced with this attitude. > > Best / Roger Breton > www.graxx.ca > > >

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RE: How is a printing press calibrated and how much does it cost?
by Roger Breton 18 Jul '16

18 Jul '16

Mike Strickler (wisely) wrote : > Dismiss any suggestion that an annual or semiannual "fingerprinting" or "certification" is what you need--these are quite close to worthless for assuring consistent > color output. Yet... In my humble experience, the majority of printers are reluctant to systematically "study" the long term behavior of their equipment as they see this as a recognition that their million dollar equipment are inherently "deficient"? I'm constantly faced with this attitude. Best / Roger Breton www.graxx.ca

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Re: How is a printing press calibrated and how much does it cost?
by Mike Strickler 18 Jul '16

18 Jul '16

Hi Jorge, Offset presses are both highly standardizable but also unstable, so it's better to think of the task as ongoing, continuous process control rather than a single act of calibration that is repeated occasionally. There is a range of tools in a wide variety of prices, but the basics always include some form of strip-reading spectrophotometer, software that tracks the Lab values of solids, tints, overprints, gray balance and print contrast and the ability to make plate correction curves, and training. I would say that a budget for this would start at somewhere north of $10,000 US plus expenses for one press and training for a press operator and a prepress person and go up from there. Dismiss any suggestion that an annual or semiannual "fingerprinting" or "certification" is what you need--these are quite close to worthless for assuring consistent color output. Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services

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How is a printing press calibrated and how much does it cost?
by Jorge . 18 Jul '16

18 Jul '16

Hi, I think I have a decent understanding of color management from image input, display and PDF output related to desktop publishing and photography editing software, etc. but I am not familiar with what goes into actually having a printing press calibrated and being able to produce accurate and predictable color from different printers, inks and papers from the POV of someone operating the printers themselves. I have the suspicion that the person I interface with when communicating with the printer I have no option but to work with, and who holds the responsibility and decision power of what and how to tweak in either the files I send or the printers themselves, is not particularly versed in current color management concepts either. I actually have the suspicion that he is stuck in mid-90s ways to do stuff, doing manual tweaking of ink output levels and so. I am meeting with that person in order to know why the magazines we print with them all seem washed out and seem to have a blue-ish shift in all pages, why they feel they need to tweak the ink balance of the PDF files we send them (if I understood correctly that that is what they feel they need to do each time we send them something), and how we should be sending them our stuff in order to make their lives easier and less prone to unexpected colors. Without one bit of intention of sounding like a jerk to that person (I have to work with him and them whatever the conclusion), I would like to anticipate what concepts that person should be familiar with in order to know, well… whether he knows what he is doing and there is something we can do to have better output, or whether he knows his stuff but there are other determinants (like cost) that limit how nice our prints can be or whether we are stuck with someone that does not know his job. When I send a PDF to the printer, and they will use, say, 5 different printing machines to print it, what goes into having them all print the same source consistently? I assume different levels of color consistency and predictability have different associated costs. What would be different "leagues" in printing press calibration related to how much equipment, software and calibration process would cost? What can those costs add up to for the printer? If the printer is able to handle RGB objects in a PDF (which they seemingly do), is there any benefit **from their POV** in me providing a PDF/X-4 instead of a PDF/X-1a and use RGB where it seems it makes sense (like pictures and other elements where I am not concerned about what/how many inks with what halftone pattern they use but with having their colors print predictably)? (I would assume so, if they somehow need to apply color conversion to my files to their particular CMYK color space, but I do not know). Up until know we have been generating the PDFs with Adobe's UncoatedFOGRA29.icc as output intent without really confirming whether that is appropriate for their printers (besides just knowing that the paper is uncoated). What our output intent should be is one of the answers I would like to ask, but I would like to anticipate whether this person can actually provide an answer to that. Jorge

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