February 2017 - colorsync-users

Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11
by Axel Robert 07 Mar '17

07 Mar '17

Dear all, I’m trying to answer according what I already read about the V4 ICC profiles. This is related to the ICC White paper#2 March 2014: using the sRGB_ICC_v4_appearance.icc profile and White Paper #26 Using the sRGB_v4_ICC_preference.icc profile. They both indicate a better use of rendering intents when comes the time to separate from RGB to CMYK and a more precise definition of the PCS. I did not test yet. I am nevertheless going to do it. I will share my results asap. Regards, Axel On 24/02/2017 21:00, "colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=ubisoft.com(a)lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=ubisoft.com(a)lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 10 (dmargulis) 2. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (Graeme Gill) 3. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (Andrew Rodney) 4. Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (State of the Art in RGB profile). (Andrew Rodney) 5. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (State of the Art in RGB profile). (Andrew Rodney) 6. RE: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (State of the Art in RGB profile). (Roger Breton) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 22:39:45 +0100 From: dmargulis <dmargulis(a)aol.com> To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 10 Message-ID: <2F9FEA53-0158-427F-96B8-F1A1ECB6EA8A(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (Axel Robert) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 11:53:19 +0000 > From: Axel Robert <axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com> > To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 > Message-ID: <006F66DD-A666-475F-BA4D-75C045F7BA09(a)ubisoft.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Graeme, > > What I’ve read (technical papers on the color.org website) about V4 ICC profile seems to be better than the current V2 when comes time to convert in CMYK (using a CMYK V4 too). > > Axel > > On 21/02/2017 21:00, "colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=ubisoft.com(a)lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=ubisoft.com(a)lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 > (layarza(a)litholaser.com) > 2. Re: State of the Art in RGB profile. (Graeme Gill) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:03:35 -0500 > From: layarza(a)litholaser.com > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 > Message-ID: <react-83725866(a)litholaser.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Estaré ausente de la oficina desde el 1 de febrero al 15 de Febrero, por favor cualquier consulta comunicarse al anexo de Soporte Lago - 7777 Con Andy Carranza, Gracias. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:06:19 +1100 > From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com> > To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: State of the Art in RGB profile. > Message-ID: <58ABA09B.2080202(a)argyllcms.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Axel Robert wrote: > > Hi, > >> According to the latest update provided on the color.org website, it seems that >> sRGB_V4 would (should) be a good reference profile. > > what are your technical reasons for moving to V4 though ? > >> But, in PDF/X workflows, Ghent Work Group Process Control subcommittee previously >> recommended restricting ICC profiles in PDF/X to those made to the older v2 specification. > > Right - since technically, V4 doesn't add a whole lot (some extra per channel > curve types, better internationalization support of meta-data) and has > some disadvantages (elimination of absolute colorimetric support for > display profiles with standard CMMs, confusion about L*a*b* encoding, > confusion about the black point), it's understandable if wider compatibility > is more important than "having the latest". > > Graeme Gill. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 > ********************************************** > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 10 > *********************************************** ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 09:36:47 +1100 From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com> To: ColorSync <ColorSync-Users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 Message-ID: <58AF63FF.5050809(a)argyllcms.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Axel Robert wrote: > What I’ve read (technical papers on the color.org website) about V4 ICC profile seems > to be better than the current V2 when comes time to convert in CMYK (using a CMYK V4 too). I'm not aware of any such advantage. Can you point me to something specific ? Graeme Gill. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 16:24:53 -0700 From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> To: ColorSync <ColorSync-Users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 Message-ID: <5DCC882A-569F-4F6E-80C0-BD4081AD3E05(a)digitaldog.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Feb 23, 2017, at 3:36 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com> wrote: > > Axel Robert wrote: > >> What I’ve read (technical papers on the color.org website) about V4 ICC profile seems >> to be better than the current V2 when comes time to convert in CMYK (using a CMYK V4 too). > > I'm not aware of any such advantage. Can you point me to something specific ? > > Graeme Gill. Me either and further, what V4 output profile even supports the PRMG? V4 ICC profiles are more often harmeful than good depending on the software product (at least in the past, Lightroom had issues with em). Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 16:51:43 -0700 From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> To: ColorSync <ColorSync-Users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (State of the Art in RGB profile). Message-ID: <F4D29E93-BC9D-4A4E-8E98-2540E1F71A92(a)digitaldog.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Took measurement data and built two RGB profiles identically except for the version (V2 vs. V4) in i1Profiler. Converted one image using both (Perceptual), compared the differences in ColorThink Pro. There IS a difference but not a lot! -------------------------------------------------- dE Report Number of Samples: 78900 Delta-E Formula dE2000 Overall - (78900 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 1.09 Max dE: 2.22 Min dE: 0.00 StdDev dE: 0.32 Best 90% - (71009 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 1.04 Max dE: 1.46 Min dE: 0.00 StdDev dE: 0.29 Worst 10% - (7891 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 1.55 Max dE: 2.22 Min dE: 1.46 StdDev dE: 0.09 -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 16:58:34 -0700 From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> To: ColorSync <ColorSync-Users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (State of the Art in RGB profile). Message-ID: <9E4F6D3F-6B7D-4F78-A17B-050E81AAF127(a)digitaldog.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Same test, using RelCol. V2 versus V4 profile being the only difference: -------------------------------------------------- dE Report Number of Samples: 78900 Delta-E Formula dE2000 Overall - (78900 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 0.07 Max dE: 2.87 Min dE: 0.00 StdDev dE: 0.11 Best 90% - (71009 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 0.05 Max dE: 0.15 Min dE: 0.00 StdDev dE: 0.03 Worst 10% - (7891 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 0.32 Max dE: 2.87 Min dE: 0.15 StdDev dE: 0.23 -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:24:50 -0500 From: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> To: "'ColorSync'" <ColorSync-Users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: RE: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (State of the Art in RGB profile). Message-ID: <709301d28e34$69d97bf0$3d8c73d0$(a)videotron.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In my very humble experience, if I can throw my two cents here, V2 and V4 *output* profiles are the same unlike display profiles. / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Rodney Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:59 PM To: ColorSync <ColorSync-Users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (State of the Art in RGB profile). Same test, using RelCol. V2 versus V4 profile being the only difference: -------------------------------------------------- dE Report Number of Samples: 78900 Delta-E Formula dE2000 Overall - (78900 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 0.07 Max dE: 2.87 Min dE: 0.00 StdDev dE: 0.11 Best 90% - (71009 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 0.05 Max dE: 0.15 Min dE: 0.00 StdDev dE: 0.03 Worst 10% - (7891 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 0.32 Max dE: 2.87 Min dE: 0.15 StdDev dE: 0.23 -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Colorsync-users mailing list Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11 ***********************************************

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RE: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (State of the Art in RGB profile).
by Roger Breton 24 Feb '17

24 Feb '17

In my very humble experience, if I can throw my two cents here, V2 and V4 *output* profiles are the same unlike display profiles. / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Rodney Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:59 PM To: ColorSync <ColorSync-Users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (State of the Art in RGB profile). Same test, using RelCol. V2 versus V4 profile being the only difference: -------------------------------------------------- dE Report Number of Samples: 78900 Delta-E Formula dE2000 Overall - (78900 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 0.07 Max dE: 2.87 Min dE: 0.00 StdDev dE: 0.11 Best 90% - (71009 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 0.05 Max dE: 0.15 Min dE: 0.00 StdDev dE: 0.03 Worst 10% - (7891 colors) -------------------------------------------------- Average dE: 0.32 Max dE: 2.87 Min dE: 0.15 StdDev dE: 0.23 -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca

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Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9
by Axel Robert 23 Feb '17

23 Feb '17

Hi Graeme, What I’ve read (technical papers on the color.org website) about V4 ICC profile seems to be better than the current V2 when comes time to convert in CMYK (using a CMYK V4 too). Axel On 21/02/2017 21:00, "colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=ubisoft.com(a)lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=ubisoft.com(a)lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 (layarza(a)litholaser.com) 2. Re: State of the Art in RGB profile. (Graeme Gill) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:03:35 -0500 From: layarza(a)litholaser.com To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 Message-ID: <react-83725866(a)litholaser.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Estaré ausente de la oficina desde el 1 de febrero al 15 de Febrero, por favor cualquier consulta comunicarse al anexo de Soporte Lago - 7777 Con Andy Carranza, Gracias. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:06:19 +1100 From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com> To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: State of the Art in RGB profile. Message-ID: <58ABA09B.2080202(a)argyllcms.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Axel Robert wrote: Hi, > According to the latest update provided on the color.org website, it seems that > sRGB_V4 would (should) be a good reference profile. what are your technical reasons for moving to V4 though ? > But, in PDF/X workflows, Ghent Work Group Process Control subcommittee previously > recommended restricting ICC profiles in PDF/X to those made to the older v2 specification. Right - since technically, V4 doesn't add a whole lot (some extra per channel curve types, better internationalization support of meta-data) and has some disadvantages (elimination of absolute colorimetric support for display profiles with standard CMMs, confusion about L*a*b* encoding, confusion about the black point), it's understandable if wider compatibility is more important than "having the latest". Graeme Gill. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Colorsync-users mailing list Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 **********************************************

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Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 10
by dmargulis 23 Feb '17

23 Feb '17

On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 (Axel Robert) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 11:53:19 +0000 > From: Axel Robert <axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com> > To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 > Message-ID: <006F66DD-A666-475F-BA4D-75C045F7BA09(a)ubisoft.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Graeme, > > What I’ve read (technical papers on the color.org website) about V4 ICC profile seems to be better than the current V2 when comes time to convert in CMYK (using a CMYK V4 too). > > Axel > > On 21/02/2017 21:00, "colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=ubisoft.com(a)lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=ubisoft.com(a)lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 > (layarza(a)litholaser.com) > 2. Re: State of the Art in RGB profile. (Graeme Gill) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:03:35 -0500 > From: layarza(a)litholaser.com > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8 > Message-ID: <react-83725866(a)litholaser.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Estaré ausente de la oficina desde el 1 de febrero al 15 de Febrero, por favor cualquier consulta comunicarse al anexo de Soporte Lago - 7777 Con Andy Carranza, Gracias. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:06:19 +1100 > From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com> > To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com" > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: State of the Art in RGB profile. > Message-ID: <58ABA09B.2080202(a)argyllcms.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Axel Robert wrote: > > Hi, > >> According to the latest update provided on the color.org website, it seems that >> sRGB_V4 would (should) be a good reference profile. > > what are your technical reasons for moving to V4 though ? > >> But, in PDF/X workflows, Ghent Work Group Process Control subcommittee previously >> recommended restricting ICC profiles in PDF/X to those made to the older v2 specification. > > Right - since technically, V4 doesn't add a whole lot (some extra per channel > curve types, better internationalization support of meta-data) and has > some disadvantages (elimination of absolute colorimetric support for > display profiles with standard CMMs, confusion about L*a*b* encoding, > confusion about the black point), it's understandable if wider compatibility > is more important than "having the latest". > > Graeme Gill. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 > ********************************************** > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 10 > ***********************************************

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State of the Art in RGB profile.
by Axel Robert 21 Feb '17

21 Feb '17

Dear all « Colorsyncers », I am going to implement a new color management strategy for our Creative Agencies. According to the latest update provided on the color.org website, it seems that sRGB_V4 would (should) be a good reference profile. But, in PDF/X workflows, Ghent Work Group Process Control subcommittee previously recommended restricting ICC profiles in PDF/X to those made to the older v2 specification. Until now I was using mostly the eci RGB_V2 for new Photoshop images. But I would like to go deeper in term of color management implementing a Media Neutral Workflow as far as possible. So, is the V4 specification allowed? And what would be the best current strategy? Thank you. Axel Axel Robert | Prepress Manager Ubisoft EMEA |Manufacturing 28, rue Armand Carrel | 93100 Montreuil | France Tel: +33(0)1 48 18 52 03 | Skype: axelprepress

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Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8
by layarza＠litholaser.com 20 Feb '17

20 Feb '17

Estaré ausente de la oficina desde el 1 de febrero al 15 de Febrero, por favor cualquier consulta comunicarse al anexo de Soporte Lago - 7777 Con Andy Carranza, Gracias.

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