November 2019 - colorsync-users

RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
by graxx＠videotron.ca 01 Dec '19

01 Dec '19

Thanks for the clarification. Many people I talk to, who are NOT in our "business", are notoriously "outraged" by the idea of a monitor price anything higher than what the computer cost them. $200 to $400 are considered "very good" for most people, just look at what's on sale at Staples. Anything above that range is considered preposterous. But I agree $25,000 for a 32" SONY BVM studio display ain't cheap (keep buying those lottery tickets...). I remember when I purchased my NEC 19u CRT monitors, many years ago, was it ever expensive! And paying several thousands of the first Eizo CG21 was beyond "ludicrous", for me. Dell, BenQ, ASUS, HP and the likes are considered relatively inexpensive but I can see they long entered the high-end market with HP being one of the first with its DreamColor (that I can remember). I don't think I'd be ready to give BenQ $1500 for a monitor, even with the hood... Again, after combing some of these monitors's User Guides, not a sliver of stated chromaticities anywhere? Seems everyone is satisfied with using a relative metric such as "X % of AdobeRGB" or some other "meaningful" gamut. Even PCWorld or DPreview type of articles, completely silent. Why not, at least, take advantage of the article to "educate" potential buyers about what makes a monitor gamut? I suspect the guys (or girls) who write these articles don't have a clue themselves... Question: doesn't SONY offers smaller (cheaper) BVM monitors? I seem to remember they did, maybe in a previous generation... And to what extent wouldn't a "good" high-end monitor like a NEC or an Eizo not be comparable? Side by side? I confess I never seen a SONY BVM "in person" (I don't go to video shows), but I would tend to think it is "overpriced", I mean, compared to a well-calibrated, well-characterized display? On the other hand, it is true that professional studios who are wall-to-wall Avid users, for example, like a local station I know, can't claim even the most basic color management -- such an archaic system (?), if you want my opinion, no ICC profiling of any kind, anywhere to be seen! --, creating the necessity for monitors that are Rec709 or some other standard "out-of-the-box". / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 1:23 PM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities A 32in Sony BVM studio display at $25,000 street is my idea of not cheap. So I'm being flippant. What I mean by "commodities" is a product widely available and suitable to a consumer's preferences are taste, rather than a product that satisfies a specific industrial process which cost must be tolerated by that process. Vague, I admit... _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca

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RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
by graxx＠videotron.ca 01 Dec '19

01 Dec '19

Wire, Is this what you're looking for? https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAteG-cIdVA_xRmmA?e=EgcKHL Opinion about balance between AdobeRGB and Display P3 in consumer gear? Honestly, I don't know. I don't know at what rate are wide-gamut monitor prices coming down? I'm not sure many "consumers" care all that much or are the least bit knowledgeable about the gamut of their displays? As far as Apple's products are concerned, it may give their engineers "good conscience" to know they are adopting a "new" standard for display, P3, but I suspect most buyers are not all that preoccupied and certainly wouldn't be swayed to buy an Apple product because of their "adoption" of P3. I read elsewhere that Microsoft's Surface Hub has P3 as its "native" space? As an experiment, I tried to set my PA271W in its native gamut, if only to measure the primaries, but I quickly reverted to sRGB emulation because the colors were too vivid? You mentioned NTSC and I was surprised to see how far it reaches into the greens, not so much into the blues but almost on the nose of the spectrum locus for the red primary. Quite a feat. Could it be that televisions were made with these primaries all the way back in the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s? / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:49 AM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities Roger thanks (and Andrew) for looking that up and plotting. Would you replace previous NEC model plot with NTSC 1953 and post your graph over on the DisplayCal thread you recently commented... The graph clearly makes Vincent at DisplayCal's point about combined P3 / Adobe coverage possible with some new tech. And I think it will show that consumer displays (higher end) have finally arrived at the color spec laid down when ENIAC was the next big thing (figuratively haha) What are you opinions about the balance between Adobe RGB and Display P3 coverage in consumer gear? And challenges of wide-gamuts in general. I'm interested in your opinions as both what you think personally and your sense of industry trends. /wire On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 6:40 PM Roger Breton via colorsync-users < colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > Thank you so much, Mr Rodney. > Never knew why manufacturers could not publish this kind of data in > their technical brochure. > > A little graphing shows the improvements over the previous generation: > https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAglHEpfO10xKmr_g?e=npCj5r > > I can see they managed to get the red primary very close to the > Cine-P3 red primary which, according to the P3 specs, is "made up of a > 615nm monochromatic" source of light. > > The green primary gives the impression that it is cleverly "sitting" > between > AdobeRGB's green primariy and Cine-P3's green primary. > > The blue primary is also improved relative to the 271W. > > I can't assess the black level, though. Being an OLED panel, it's > supposed to have deeper black levels than an LCD panel. > > I suppose you have a 10-bit end to end workflow? > > May I ask the source of your numbers, Andrew? I1pro2? Multiprofiler? > SpoectraView II? I found Multiprofiler numbers are very close to > lab-grade instruments, at least in my experience. > > Thank you so much for your help, > > / Roger > www.graxx.ca > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2019 9:13 PM > To: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> > Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List < > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities > > Here's what I see on mine, (full gamut) in SpectraView Info window: > > Red: 0.683, 0.311 > Green: 0.217, 0.721 > Blue: 0.153, 0.045 > Source: Calibration Sensor. > > Hope that's useful. > > Andrew Rodney > http://www.digitaldog.net/ > > > > > On Nov 29, 2019, at 7:04 PM, Roger Breton via colorsync-users > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > > > Would anyone have the 1931 CIE xy chromaticities of this monitor, by > > any chance? In its "Full", "Native" mode? It's not in the User > > Manual, it's not on NEC web site, it's not on some user review by > > PCMag or some other? It's probably shown on Multiprofiler but I > > don't have the version made for this monitor. > > > > > > > > Curious to know how they can go about emulating both AdobeRGB and > > DCI-P3 at the same time. > > > > > > > > Any help is appreciated / Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/wire%40lexipha > nicism.com > > This email sent to wire(a)lexiphanicism.com > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca

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DisplayCAL
by graxx＠videotron.ca 30 Nov '19

30 Nov '19

Just want to say, for those who are interested in color management as applied to monitors, let me recommend https://hub.displaycal.net/. It’s packed with exquisite technical information, if you are so inclined. You may even want to give their package a try – can’t beat the price, really. I requires some reading, true, but it’s all very good information, as far as I can see. Just head to their Help and Support or General Discussions Forums, reading what others have to say about their experience with calibrating and characterizing their displays will go a long way towards fostering a better understanding of the underlying technologies for yourself. Just one example, if I may. I used to work for a large printing company (I won’t name) and, one day, we were given monitors to put at each presses consoles. Wow! I thought. Crazy? At the same time. One of the advantage of the software we were using was its advanced understanding of monitor characteristics (which was never completely explained to me, even if I developed a good relationship with its author). We had to install some of these monitors at client’s sites too. And one site, who was very reluctant to jump aboard, where we had to install five such monitors, for color retouchers to use in Photoshop, day in and day out, insisted that we “prove” to them that our “technology” was good, meaning, we had to go to their offices, calibrate each of the five displays and then put them side by side, so that any differences could be compared. Well, I have to confess I did not know, at the time, the answer to this one, BEFORE spending some time reading this post, by Florian Höch, in the FAQ: https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/frequently-asked-questions/ The issue is “How can several monitors can be made to match each other?” and Florian’s answer is very simple but proceeds from an intimate understanding of the technology: by forcing each display to a common “denominator”, it’s possible to physically match each other quite well. Which means, finding out what are ‘worst’ RGB and Black Point chromaticities and Luminances are, and then using that information to use as targets for the five displays. Seems so deceptively simple? Many of you, who are monitoring this list probably are very familiar with these proven techniques (and it’s not my point to teach you anything you already know) but it goes to show the worthiness of the information on DisplayCAL. Thank you so much Florian Höch and Graeme Gill – I’m obviously not working for these guys 😊 A big Kudo to you two. / Roger Breton www.graxx.ca

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iMac Pro chromaticities
by graxx＠videotron.ca 30 Nov '19

30 Nov '19

I don’t have access to an iMacPro (not here), would anyone have some actual chromaticities measurements to share? All Apple says on their wev site, in their specs section, is “P3”. https://www.apple.com/ca/imac-pro/specs/ Their Pro Display XDR still only seems to boast no better than the same “Apple P3 flavor” gamut? Other than outrageously high max Luminance, 1000 cd/m2 – seem to remember a few years ago, someone telling me that the term “nit” was deprecated and look at all these manufacturers using it left and right in promoting their specs!). I’d be curious to see what kind of “warranty” Apple will give on these monitors? Ah yes! Here it is, in all its “glory” (I’m not being sarcastic): “Your Pro Display XDR comes with 90 days of complimentary technical support and a one-year limited warranty.” https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/specs/ But they have what they call “Reference Modes” – interesting -- with a load of “standards” : > HDR Video (P3-ST 2084) > HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886) > NTSC Video (BT.601 SMPTE-C) > PAL and SECAM Video (BT.601 EBU) > Digital Cinema (P3-DCI) > Digital Cinema (P3-D65) > Design and Print (P3-D50) > Photography (P3-D65) > Internet and Web (sRGB) I’ll be curious how they implement these, in software? In System Preferences > Display? How about “calibration”? They mention “True Tone technology with dual ambient light sensor (ALS) design to ensure an accurate viewing experience in any ambient lighting condition”? Do you see a need for this, in professional applications? At this stage, no one has seen these “babies” yet… Still, $5,000 a pop… How would they rate against a 32” SONY BVM? Best / Roger P.S. Please don’t think I’m ranting about Apple… I have the highest respect for their products 😊

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Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
by Wire ~ 30 Nov '19

30 Nov '19

A 32in Sony BVM studio display at $25,000 street is my idea of not cheap. So I'm being flippant. What I mean by "commodities" is a product widely available and suitable to a consumer's preferences are taste, rather than a product that satisfies a specific industrial process which cost must be tolerated by that process. Vague, I admit...

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RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
by graxx＠videotron.ca 30 Nov '19

30 Nov '19

Wire, Will comply with your suggestion later but why do you consider a monitor like the NEC PA271Q a "commodity" display? It's not exactly cheap. / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 12:41 PM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities Re graph, keep the new gen NEC in there, but leave out the old one to make the point that now commodities displays can do it all. Re NTSC 1953 and common TVs. No. I believe the need for bright tubes forced a tradeoff for much narrower gamut. And led to oddities like 9300K whitepoint in Japanese designs in 90s, where it was observed that super bright sets sold better in big box stores, and whiter-than-white was a selling point for all sorts of stuff. I think the NTSC 1953 definition is important because it would have been engineered to be a reasonable max for posterity. I can't support this with specific evidence, but my guess is because the medium was so new, yet the CIE had formalized all the science 20 years before, the designers would have made their cut based on a practical maximum for the future of the medium, tempered by what was known to be possible / useful, if not economical. Along the lines of Pointers Gamut. Now a lot of our visual world is synthetic, Marvel movies and such— society is ruled by TV and movies—so wacky wide gamuts are a big gimmick for UHD TV, which hopes to replace your life with a simulation, while cinema is tempered by a more practical reality of the best that film can do. Regarding how you personally cope with a big gamut display by simulating sRGB: somehow the promise of ICC was never fully baked into the desktop. You are doing Windows I assume. Apple now color manages the whole UI. As to disappoints of ICC, I think this is mostly, because it's not possible for the smaller gamut to simulate the bigger ones—natch—and the cost formula for commodities means most devices are smaller gamut. So what's the point of commodities ICC support again? While sRGB / 709 are clearly very practical fine standards for a variety of reasons, it's noticeable that some color was left on the table and now it can be claimed. Apple is changing this with their vertical integration. From display, through OS and into streaming. As to DCI vs UHD, Netflix is called "flix" i.e. movies—//whatever happened to WebTV?// Therefore Apple's doing a variant of DCI-P3 not BT.2020. Plus no one can do the 2020 spec as it's insane, and insanely not backwards compatible. My overall point is SMPTE figured gamut out during the onset of the cold war, and it's been engineering compromises (many) ever since. On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 8:37 AM <graxx(a)videotron.ca> wrote: > Wire, > > Is this what you're looking for? > https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAteG-cIdVA_xRmmA?e=EgcKHL > > Opinion about balance between AdobeRGB and Display P3 in consumer gear? > Honestly, I don't know. I don't know at what rate are wide-gamut > monitor prices coming down? I'm not sure many "consumers" care all > that much or are the least bit knowledgeable about the gamut of their > displays? As far as Apple's products are concerned, it may give their > engineers "good conscience" to know they are adopting a "new" standard > for display, P3, but I suspect most buyers are not all that > preoccupied and certainly wouldn't be swayed to buy an Apple product > because of their "adoption" of P3. I read elsewhere that Microsoft's > Surface Hub has P3 as its "native" space? > > As an experiment, I tried to set my PA271W in its native gamut, if > only to measure the primaries, but I quickly reverted to sRGB > emulation because the colors were too vivid? > > You mentioned NTSC and I was surprised to see how far it reaches into > the greens, not so much into the blues but almost on the nose of the > spectrum locus for the red primary. Quite a feat. Could it be that > televisions were made with these primaries all the way back in the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s? > > / Roger > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: colorsync-users > <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf > Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users > Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:49 AM > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities > > Roger thanks (and Andrew) for looking that up and plotting. > > Would you replace previous NEC model plot with NTSC 1953 and post your > graph over on the DisplayCal thread you recently commented... The > graph clearly makes Vincent at DisplayCal's point about combined P3 / > Adobe coverage possible with some new tech. And I think it will show > that consumer displays (higher end) have finally arrived at the color > spec laid down when ENIAC was the next big thing (figuratively haha) > > What are you opinions about the balance between Adobe RGB and Display > P3 coverage in consumer gear? And challenges of wide-gamuts in > general. I'm interested in your opinions as both what you think > personally and your sense of industry trends. > > /wire > > On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 6:40 PM Roger Breton via colorsync-users < > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > > Thank you so much, Mr Rodney. > > Never knew why manufacturers could not publish this kind of data in > > their technical brochure. > > > > A little graphing shows the improvements over the previous generation: > > https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAglHEpfO10xKmr_g?e=npCj5r > > > > I can see they managed to get the red primary very close to the > > Cine-P3 red primary which, according to the P3 specs, is "made up of > > a 615nm monochromatic" source of light. > > > > The green primary gives the impression that it is cleverly "sitting" > > between > > AdobeRGB's green primariy and Cine-P3's green primary. > > > > The blue primary is also improved relative to the 271W. > > > > I can't assess the black level, though. Being an OLED panel, it's > > supposed to have deeper black levels than an LCD panel. > > > > I suppose you have a 10-bit end to end workflow? > > > > May I ask the source of your numbers, Andrew? I1pro2? Multiprofiler? > > SpoectraView II? I found Multiprofiler numbers are very close to > > lab-grade instruments, at least in my experience. > > > > Thank you so much for your help, > > > > / Roger > > www.graxx.ca > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> > > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2019 9:13 PM > > To: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> > > Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List < > > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > > Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities > > > > Here's what I see on mine, (full gamut) in SpectraView Info window: > > > > Red: 0.683, 0.311 > > Green: 0.217, 0.721 > > Blue: 0.153, 0.045 > > Source: Calibration Sensor. > > > > Hope that's useful. > > > > Andrew Rodney > > http://www.digitaldog.net/ > > > > > > > > > On Nov 29, 2019, at 7:04 PM, Roger Breton via colorsync-users > > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > > > > > Would anyone have the 1931 CIE xy chromaticities of this monitor, > > > by any chance? In its "Full", "Native" mode? It's not in the User > > > Manual, it's not on NEC web site, it's not on some user review by > > > PCMag or some other? It's probably shown on Multiprofiler but I > > > don't have the version made for this monitor. > > > > > > > > > > > > Curious to know how they can go about emulating both AdobeRGB and > > > DCI-P3 at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any help is appreciated / Roger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > > colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/wire%40lexip > > ha > > nicism.com > > > > This email sent to wire(a)lexiphanicism.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videot > ron.ca > > This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca > > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca

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RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities (no HTML!)
by graxx＠videotron.ca 30 Nov '19

30 Nov '19

Hallo Karl, Exactly as I suspected – please "Apple people", could you make this list HTML-friendly? iPhone11 Pro Max x y Y CCT/dominant wavelength ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- W 0.3441 0.3523 50.59 5040 K R 0.6601 0.3319 11.51 610.8nm G 0.3314 0.6070 36.77 554 B 0.1502 0.0624 3.13 465 / Roger

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RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
by graxx＠videotron.ca 30 Nov '19

30 Nov '19

Hallo Karl, Made a quick experiment with my iPhone11ProMax who’s supposed to have an OLED display. I have to say that, under Settings > Display & Brightness, I have it set to “about 60% brightness” (they only have “slider” interface) and TrueTone is ON. I measured its RGBW colors, which I typed in Excel and copied below (I don’t think the List accepts HTML (apologize in advance for the way the data may come out – we’ll find out now!) : iPhone11 Pro Max x y Y CCT 0.3441 0.3523 50.59 5040 0.6601 0.3319 11.51 610.8 0.3314 0.6070 36.77 554 0.1502 0.0624 3.13 465 First of all, the “Brightness” makes the screen luminance quite low – but I don’t mind. Also, the TrueTone setting makes it appear “yellowish” or “creamy” to some others, but it does not bother me at all. I’m used to this kind of white point CCT. https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAuU7cMVh8vkPvJsA?e=Iry2tn As you can see on the graph, in that TrueTone mode, it’s closer to sRGB than anything else. I shall try, later, to turn TrueTone off, to measure the difference. Bite, enchuldigen sie meine humble technical ignorance about the iPhone aber do they have some kind of ICC profile for the iPhone? At Apple? My old Nokia Windows phone came with selectable ICC profiles… MfG / Roger From: basicc(a)mac.com <basicc(a)mac.com> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 12:05 PM To: 'Wire ~' <wire(a)lexiphanicism.com>; graxx(a)videotron.ca Cc: ''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List' <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities Hi Roger, P3 is the logical choice if you want to address videographers. Most of their software is not color managed and relies on a specific gamut (or calibration/emulation if your monitor supports 3D LUTs). The you can reduce a wide gamut monitor to Rec 709, for example and save the money for a specialised video monitor. A lot of new displays for handhelds and laptops (not only Apple´s) offer a P3 gamut now, most probably due to the fact that they com from the same manufacturer ;-) If you convert to sRGB you cut off a lot of greens which could be printed in an offset process, let alone digital press. NTSC is much better suited for that. That is why eciRGB v2 is very close to NTSC (which was a very theoretical monitor gamut at its time). If you set your monitor to native – or better calibrate it to a white point of 5000K or 6500 K, depending for which industry you are working – AND then profile it, the colors will be right in color managed applications. If you don’t work with color managed applications, calibrating and profiling is a waste of time and money. Then it´s all up to personal taste. Best regards Karl Am 30. Nov. 2019, 17:37 +0100 schrieb Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> >: Wire, Is this what you're looking for? https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAteG-cIdVA_xRmmA?e=EgcKHL Opinion about balance between AdobeRGB and Display P3 in consumer gear? Honestly, I don't know. I don't know at what rate are wide-gamut monitor prices coming down? I'm not sure many "consumers" care all that much or are the least bit knowledgeable about the gamut of their displays? As far as Apple's products are concerned, it may give their engineers "good conscience" to know they are adopting a "new" standard for display, P3, but I suspect most buyers are not all that preoccupied and certainly wouldn't be swayed to buy an Apple product because of their "adoption" of P3. I read elsewhere that Microsoft's Surface Hub has P3 as its "native" space? As an experiment, I tried to set my PA271W in its native gamut, if only to measure the primaries, but I quickly reverted to sRGB emulation because the colors were too vivid? You mentioned NTSC and I was surprised to see how far it reaches into the greens, not so much into the blues but almost on the nose of the spectrum locus for the red primary. Quite a feat. Could it be that televisions were made with these primaries all the way back in the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s? / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com> > On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:49 AM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities Roger thanks (and Andrew) for looking that up and plotting. Would you replace previous NEC model plot with NTSC 1953 and post your graph over on the DisplayCal thread you recently commented... The graph clearly makes Vincent at DisplayCal's point about combined P3 / Adobe coverage possible with some new tech. And I think it will show that consumer displays (higher end) have finally arrived at the color spec laid down when ENIAC was the next big thing (figuratively haha) What are you opinions about the balance between Adobe RGB and Display P3 coverage in consumer gear? And challenges of wide-gamuts in general. I'm interested in your opinions as both what you think personally and your sense of industry trends. /wire On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 6:40 PM Roger Breton via colorsync-users < colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > wrote: Thank you so much, Mr Rodney. Never knew why manufacturers could not publish this kind of data in their technical brochure. A little graphing shows the improvements over the previous generation: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAglHEpfO10xKmr_g?e=npCj5r I can see they managed to get the red primary very close to the Cine-P3 red primary which, according to the P3 specs, is "made up of a 615nm monochromatic" source of light. The green primary gives the impression that it is cleverly "sitting" between AdobeRGB's green primariy and Cine-P3's green primary. The blue primary is also improved relative to the 271W. I can't assess the black level, though. Being an OLED panel, it's supposed to have deeper black levels than an LCD panel. I suppose you have a 10-bit end to end workflow? May I ask the source of your numbers, Andrew? I1pro2? Multiprofiler? SpoectraView II? I found Multiprofiler numbers are very close to lab-grade instruments, at least in my experience. Thank you so much for your help, / Roger www.graxx.ca <http://www.graxx.ca> -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net <mailto:andrew@digitaldog.net> > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2019 9:13 PM To: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca> > Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List < colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities Here's what I see on mine, (full gamut) in SpectraView Info window: Red: 0.683, 0.311 Green: 0.217, 0.721 Blue: 0.153, 0.045 Source: Calibration Sensor. Hope that's useful. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ On Nov 29, 2019, at 7:04 PM, Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > wrote: Would anyone have the 1931 CIE xy chromaticities of this monitor, by any chance? In its "Full", "Native" mode? It's not in the User Manual, it's not on NEC web site, it's not on some user review by PCMag or some other? It's probably shown on Multiprofiler but I don't have the version made for this monitor. Curious to know how they can go about emulating both AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 at the same time. Any help is appreciated / Roger _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> ) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/wire%40lexipha nicism.com This email sent to wire(a)lexiphanicism.com <mailto:wire@lexiphanicism.com> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> ) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> ) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/basicc%40me.com This email sent to basicc(a)me.com <mailto:basicc@me.com>

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RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
by graxx＠videotron.ca 30 Nov '19

30 Nov '19

Thank you so much, Mr Rodney. Never knew why manufacturers could not publish this kind of data in their technical brochure. A little graphing shows the improvements over the previous generation: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAglHEpfO10xKmr_g?e=npCj5r I can see they managed to get the red primary very close to the Cine-P3 red primary which, according to the P3 specs, is "made up of a 615nm monochromatic" source of light. The green primary gives the impression that it is cleverly "sitting" between AdobeRGB's green primariy and Cine-P3's green primary. The blue primary is also improved relative to the 271W. I can't assess the black level, though. Being an OLED panel, it's supposed to have deeper black levels than an LCD panel. I suppose you have a 10-bit end to end workflow? May I ask the source of your numbers, Andrew? I1pro2? Multiprofiler? SpoectraView II? I found Multiprofiler numbers are very close to lab-grade instruments, at least in my experience. Thank you so much for your help, / Roger www.graxx.ca -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> Sent: Friday, November 29, 2019 9:13 PM To: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities Here's what I see on mine, (full gamut) in SpectraView Info window: Red: 0.683, 0.311 Green: 0.217, 0.721 Blue: 0.153, 0.045 Source: Calibration Sensor. Hope that's useful. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ > On Nov 29, 2019, at 7:04 PM, Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > Would anyone have the 1931 CIE xy chromaticities of this monitor, by > any chance? In its "Full", "Native" mode? It's not in the User Manual, > it's not on NEC web site, it's not on some user review by PCMag or > some other? It's probably shown on Multiprofiler but I don't have the > version made for this monitor. > > > > Curious to know how they can go about emulating both AdobeRGB and > DCI-P3 at the same time. > > > > Any help is appreciated / Roger

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NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
by graxx＠videotron.ca 30 Nov '19

30 Nov '19

Would anyone have the 1931 CIE xy chromaticities of this monitor, by any chance? In its "Full", "Native" mode? It's not in the User Manual, it's not on NEC web site, it's not on some user review by PCMag or some other? It's probably shown on Multiprofiler but I don't have the version made for this monitor. Curious to know how they can go about emulating both AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 at the same time. Any help is appreciated / Roger

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