July 2019 - colorsync-users

LCD calibration.
by Tom Lianza 12 Jul '19

12 Jul '19

Just some more discussion. In the future implementations of Windows, and I expect Apple, if the display is set into an HDR mode, you will probably not have access to the general video card luts because they will not be in the HDR pipeline. At Portrait Displays we have provide general guide lines to display vendors for design of there pipe lines if they want us to include their displays in our CalMAN product. Florian mentioned the unreliability of the DDC channel and that is quite correct. It is also deadly slow. Vendors of external displays are required to supply Portrait with a formal SDK based on our guidelines, that we use for calibration support in our application. For low end products that do not support matrix calibration processes, we do default to the internal Gamma Ramp functions. I want to emphasize that using ICC color management with low end displays works quite well with the video card lut . Graeme Gills frustration with proprietary interfaces is well founded, but display vendors don’t want the support call that comes with outside, third party software that can really brick the display if not properly implemented. Displays that offer DCI-P3 gamut MUST have a matrix in the pipeline or they can’t image sRGB natively (but can work quite will with standard ICC color management). In many cases they do not allow access to the matrix from anything other than a color space selection from the display UI. In some cases, they have calibration “slots” that can be accessed but there really is no standard in this area that I am aware of. The TV world is a completely different environment, particularly with respect to UHDR specifications and use of the PQ transfer functions. TV vendors do not want anyone fussing with the internals and the workflows are completely vendor specific. HDR tests are very difficult tests to run because of the need for signal generation. You can get some oversight at https://displayhdr.org/. Calibration of external displays capable of Dolby or HDR10+ standards require the use of meta data. Regards, Tom Lianza Vice President R&D tlianza(a)portrait.com cell: 603-540 4318 Portrait Displays 6663 Owens Drive Pleasanton, CA 94588 USA portrait.com This message, including any attachments, contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited From: colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:00 PM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: colorsync-users Digest, Vol 16, Issue 55 Send colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Printer profiling -- Enhance Matte (graxx(a)videotron.ca) 2. Re: LCD color calibration (Florian Höch) 3. RE: Printer profiling -- Enhance Matte (Wayne Bretl) 4. Printer profiling -- Enhance Matte (graxx(a)videotron.ca) 5. Re: LCD color calibration (Graeme Gill) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2019 17:25:04 -0400 From: graxx(a)videotron.ca To: "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Printer profiling -- Enhance Matte Message-ID: <056801d5350a$728a50b0$579ef210$(a)videotron.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Super, duper, exceptionally long video on printer profiling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W92nZK53B_0 Finally got a roll of Epson Enhance Matte paper! This is my measurement: CIE Lab (M1): 95.81 1.51 -6.79. I wanted to document the making of an ICC profile for those who have less familiarity with ICC color management. Best / Roger Breton www.graxx.ca ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 00:28:22 +0200 From: Florian Höch <lists+colorsync-users(a)hoech.org> To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: LCD color calibration Message-ID: <2780fb66-0c5f-2fe1-f85c-3fb69afcab3e(a)hoech.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Am 07.07.2019 um 16:33 schrieb THOMAS A LIANZA via colorsync-users: > Communication is possible to nearly all displays using some level of > the DDC 2.0 specifications. Not always very reliable though, and the DDC specification(s) lack consistent implementations, which seems to prevent general applicability (i.e. to me it looks like calibration software vendors are mostly forced to support DDC capable displays individually and often cannot rely on a common set of capabilities or even instruction sets). > A wide gamut panel will necessarily have an input lookup table, a > matrix or 3D out, followed by a display look up table. While a matrix or 3D LUT is not a requirement, it's surely nice-to-have for supporting things like an sRGB mode, and/or "advanced" calibration, inside the display itself. > In general, use of the graphic card LUT is not recommended at all > in most modern calibration environments. Well, we'd need to define "most". My definition of "most" with regards to (computer) display calibration would encompass typical desktop systems which either run a version of Windows (very common), macOS (less common) or an open source desktop (e.g. GNOME/KDE, even less common) paired with a run-of-the-mill LCD monitor. Unless Microsoft (same as Apple) decides to no longer support setting graphics card 1D LUTs ("videoLUT") via OS APIs, I don't see this functionality going away anytime soon, and it is still the main functionality that most calibration packages are relying upon (due to widespread support across different platforms). > If a display has an HDMI interface, the graphic card LUT is normally > inaccessible because there are a number of assumptions about the > display color management. Hmm. My own experience thus far has been that the actual physical connection or even interface seems to be irrelevant regarding whether or not typical videoLUT functionality will be available. The only requirement really is that support for the respective generalized OS APIs is implemented at the graphics driver level (and there are some USB3 external "graphics cards" which indeed seem to not implement it). Whether that means actual hardware LUTs, or emulated in software, is up to the implementation. > The current processes generally calibrate the displays to a given > color space and use a very simple ICC profile to describe the > display setup. This assumes rather high-end display hardware though, that not everyone owning a calibration device will have access to (certainly more common in professional or semi-professional environments). > As the industry moves towards HDR (high dynamic range) and Wide Gamut, > calibration occurs in the display, not on the driving platform. It may be a bit too early to anticipate, but FreeSync2 HDR which is (imho) quite likely to see some adoption (with even major LCD TV vendors onboard) seems to move in the opposite direction, with most or all HDR processing delegated to the graphics hardware in the connected system(s). > The ICC profile is used as a container for other information in HDR > systems in Windows 10. AFAIK, videoLUT still applies in HDR mode, although personally I currently have no ability to check, lacking a HDR-capable display. Cheers, Florian Höch ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2019 19:12:55 -0700 From: Wayne Bretl <waynebretl(a)cox.net> To: graxx(a)videotron.ca, "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: RE: Printer profiling -- Enhance Matte Message-ID: <00b701d53532$aa09e5f0$fe1db1d0$(a)cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 YouTube says the video has been removed by the user. -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+waynebretl=cox.net(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Roger Breton via colorsync-users Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2019 2:25 PM To: ''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List' <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Printer profiling -- Enhance Matte Super, duper, exceptionally long video on printer profiling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W92nZK53B_0 Finally got a roll of Epson Enhance Matte paper! This is my measurement: CIE Lab (M1): 95.81 1.51 -6.79. I wanted to document the making of an ICC profile for those who have less familiarity with ICC color management. Best / Roger Breton www.graxx.ca _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/waynebretl%40cox.net This email sent to waynebretl(a)cox.net ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2019 22:50:06 -0400 From: graxx(a)videotron.ca To: "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Printer profiling -- Enhance Matte Message-ID: <05b601d53537$da43fda0$8ecbf8e0$(a)videotron.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" This is the update link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZVZ-VHTe_4 The sound was terrible. Best / Roger Breton www.graxx.ca ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:58:24 +1000 From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com> To: ColorSync List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: LCD color calibration Message-ID: <ce20f95f-2e5b-e7d8-4749-e066b328af63(a)argyllcms.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 THOMAS A LIANZA via colorsync-users wrote: > A wide gamut panel will > necessarily have an input lookup table, a matrix or 3D out, followed by a display look > up table. In general, use of the graphic card LUT is not recommended at all inmost > modern calibration environments. Nice in theory, useless in reality, because there are no standards. There is no standard, reliable API for discovering and manipulating a displays internal capabilities - the display makers all play the proprietary game, and the OS makers don't have good, reliable API's for accessing these capabilities. In contrast, there are standard, reliable API's for accessing video card per channel lookup tables. Given that the ICC profile format has been sabotaged in regard to display profile absolute colorimetric intent, the video card calibration curves are the only standard mechanism available for software to set white point and brightness. If this is ever to be improved, an effort at standardization amongst display makers and OS vendors is needed, that will overcome the tendency of vendors to be secretive and play proprietary games. Graeme Gill. ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ colorsync-users mailing list colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users ------------------------------ End of colorsync-users Digest, Vol 16, Issue 55 ***********************************************

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IS&T Color and Imaging Conference - Program Now Available
by Roberta Morehouse 11 Jul '19

11 Jul '19

Join us at the IS&T Color and Imaging Conference #CIC27, 21-25 October 2019 in Paris, “the city of light”, for a week of color-related research and interesting conversations around technical topics and application areas related to color and imaging! Featuring KEYNOTES from Facebook Reality Labs, Apple, and L'Oréal on perception, visibility, AR and more… Register by 22 Sept. to SAVE 💲http://bit.ly/CIC27 • 70+ oral & interactive papers • CO-LOCATED EVENTS: By registering for CIC27, you'll gain access to: GDR APPAMAT Material Appearance Workshop, Monday 21 Oct. (Now accepting contributions) 20th International Symposium on Multispectral Colour Science (MCS 2019), Friday 25 Oct. • SHORT COURSES Featuring 15 courses and 4 workshops on a variety of topics that provide specialized training to enhance your career. Learn more @ http://bit.ly/CIC27 #CIC27 | 21-25 October 2019 | Paris, France Connect with our community! LinkedIn IS&T CIC Group Twitter @ImagingOrg #CIC27 | Subscribe to the Color & Imaging list for news and discussion

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LCD color calibration
by THOMAS A LIANZA 08 Jul '19

08 Jul '19

The display industry is in a bit of flux, and display calibration activities are caught in the middle. In the legacy environment, the graphic card out was a key component. Communication is possible to nearly all displays using some level of the DDC 2.0 specifications. It is important to note that an ICC profile does not “calibrate” a display. A monitor profile is merely a container that describes the display properties to the color management system. Most modern displays have internal look up table capabilities as well as control of backlight…. I have never seen a native raw panel that didn’t have a typical gamma 2.2 profile built in. A wide gamut panel will necessarily have an input lookup table, a matrix or 3D out, followed by a display look up table. In general, use of the graphic card LUT is not recommended at all inmost modern calibration environments. If a display has an HDMI interface, the graphic card LUT is normally inaccessible because there are a number of assumptions about the display color management. The current processes generally calibrate the displays to a given color space and use a very simple ICC profile to describe the display setup. Many display vendors provide software that monitors the user interface adjustments and register the proper profiles based upon the user selections either based upon the display UI or a software application installed on the platform. As the industry moves towards HDR (high dynamic range) and Wide Gamut , calibration occurs in the display, not on the driving platform. The ICC profile is used as a container for other information in HDR systems in Windows 10. The current trend is that the internal graphics processor system is used for rendering such as games or 3D simulations. The actual calibration of the display occurs inside the display where there is significant processing for scaling and managing color space. Regards, Tom Lianza > On Jul 6, 2019, at 3:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > > Send colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. FW: Monitor Calibration Question (Wayne Bretl) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 13:24:44 -0700 > From: Wayne Bretl <waynebretl(a)cox.net> > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: FW: Monitor Calibration Question > Message-ID: <004a01d5336f$b0ff5e90$12fe1bb0$(a)cox.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne Bretl <waynebretl(a)cox.net> > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 1:23 PM > To: 'Louis Dina' <lou(a)loudina.com> > Subject: RE: Monitor Calibration Question > > I don't actually KNOW the answer, but it seems to me that having the monitor write to the graphics card LUT when you make a color temp adjustment ON THE MONITOR (not on some driver software) would not work, as the next time you boot up, the monitor profile would re-write the LUT. Also, if changing settings on the monitor actually rewrote the graphics card LUT, it would destroy the calibrated LUT until it was reloaded by bootup. [Unless the graphics card had two successive LUTS, one for the profile and one for the monitor hardware setting.] > > I believe LCD's must have internal LUTs, because their native transfer function is nothing like CRT gamma to begin with. So, this is an obvious place to make modifications for in-monitor color temperature settings, not back in the graphics card. > > Not knowing the number of bits precision in these various possible LUTs, I have generally assumed it's best to set the monitor to the preset for the color temperature I want (or the closest available) and then apply the colorimeter/spectrophotometer calibration/profile process to make minor changes in the graphics card LUT. > > Maybe someone who has thought this through more thoroughly can comment. > > -Wayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+waynebretl=cox.net(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Louis Dina via colorsync-users > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 8:51 AM > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: Monitor Calibration Question > > I have a question about where the calibration adjustments are made in low to medium-end LCD monitors (not high end models, like Eizos). I have an aging Dell U3011 and a Viewsonic VP2365WB, which are 'okay' monitors, but certainly not what I'd call high end. > > With our old CRTs, we were able to adjust white luminance, black luminance, white point, etc, inside the CRT monitor itself using the monitor's controls. These preliminary adjustments did not alter the information in our video cards, leaving them in a pristine, straight-line condition. Then our profiling software made minor adjustments to give us a neutral grayscale with even steps between levels, and wrote this to the VLUT of the video card and to the vcgt tag in our profiles. Unless choosing Native White Point, this usually meant reducing the gain of one or two of the RGB channels. > > With consumer level LCDs, it was always my understanding that the ONLY analog control on the monitor was the brightness of the backlight (once again, I'm not talking about higher end LCDs). It was also my understanding, that if we altered the white point using the monitor's RGB gain controls, or selected a preset (such as 5000K, 6500K, 7500K, etc), these changes were reflected in the curves written to our video cards and not inside the monitor itself. > > I am questioning whether I am mistaken here. Do most consumer LCD monitors have the internal circuitry and graphic processors to make these changes independent of the video card in our computers? And if so, is it better to try to achieve our targets using the monitor controls? > > My approach to calibrating and profiling my monitors was to leave the LCD monitor's RGB gains all set to 100%, contrast set to factory default, adjust the backlight control to achieve my desired white luminance, then let the profiling software make all the necessary adjustments to achieve my targets for white point, white and black luminance, gamma, etc. > > Thanks for any feedback. > > Lou > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/waynebretl%40cox.net > > This email sent to waynebretl(a)cox.net > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > colorsync-users mailing list > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > > ------------------------------ > > End of colorsync-users Digest, Vol 16, Issue 53 > ***********************************************

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Printer profiling -- Enhance Matte
by graxx＠videotron.ca 08 Jul '19

08 Jul '19

This is the update link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZVZ-VHTe_4 The sound was terrible. Best / Roger Breton www.graxx.ca

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Printer profiling -- Enhance Matte
by graxx＠videotron.ca 08 Jul '19

08 Jul '19

Super, duper, exceptionally long video on printer profiling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W92nZK53B_0 Finally got a roll of Epson Enhance Matte paper! This is my measurement: CIE Lab (M1): 95.81 1.51 -6.79. I wanted to document the making of an ICC profile for those who have less familiarity with ICC color management. Best / Roger Breton www.graxx.ca

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Monitor Calibration Question
by Louis Dina 05 Jul '19

05 Jul '19

I have a question about where the calibration adjustments are made in low to medium-end LCD monitors (not high end models, like Eizos). I have an aging Dell U3011 and a Viewsonic VP2365WB, which are 'okay' monitors, but certainly not what I'd call high end. With our old CRTs, we were able to adjust white luminance, black luminance, white point, etc, inside the CRT monitor itself using the monitor's controls. These preliminary adjustments did not alter the information in our video cards, leaving them in a pristine, straight-line condition. Then our profiling software made minor adjustments to give us a neutral grayscale with even steps between levels, and wrote this to the VLUT of the video card and to the vcgt tag in our profiles. Unless choosing Native White Point, this usually meant reducing the gain of one or two of the RGB channels. With consumer level LCDs, it was always my understanding that the ONLY analog control on the monitor was the brightness of the backlight (once again, I'm not talking about higher end LCDs). It was also my understanding, that if we altered the white point using the monitor's RGB gain controls, or selected a preset (such as 5000K, 6500K, 7500K, etc), these changes were reflected in the curves written to our video cards and not inside the monitor itself. I am questioning whether I am mistaken here. Do most consumer LCD monitors have the internal circuitry and graphic processors to make these changes independent of the video card in our computers? And if so, is it better to try to achieve our targets using the monitor controls? My approach to calibrating and profiling my monitors was to leave the LCD monitor's RGB gains all set to 100%, contrast set to factory default, adjust the backlight control to achieve my desired white luminance, then let the profiling software make all the necessary adjustments to achieve my targets for white point, white and black luminance, gamma, etc. Thanks for any feedback. Lou

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RE: Epson Enhanced Matte
by graxx＠videotron.ca 03 Jul '19

03 Jul '19

Ernst, I was quite pleased to find your database. I’m glad I now know that the Enhanced Matte Paper was originally called Archival Matte Paper and that Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte is the cut sheet version of Enhanced Matte Paper. That’s a tough act to follow. Since most of my applications are intended for proofing, I don’t really care that the OB in the paper decays over time, due to the factors you mentioned, but it is a “problem”. I, personally, would never print images on a substrate containing FWA to put on the walls of my living room – who does that? Your last comments about “Viewing conditions” are well taken. The majority of clients I’ve worked with, in the past, don’t view their jobs under any kind of controlled lighting, and would never care to take the time to even step outside their building to use “sunlight” or “daylight” which, in my opinion, would be better than “Cool white” or “Warm white” or whatever else “office lighting”. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond 😊 / Roger From: Ernst Dinkla <info(a)pigment-print.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:02 AM To: graxx(a)videotron.ca Cc: Martin Orpen <martin(a)idea-digital.com>; 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Epson Enhanced Matte Roger, M0. Tungsten light source that does not go deep into UV. i1Share spectral measurements and the Lab data taken from that app too. 380 to 730 NM readings. With an archive manager you can open SpectrumViz and get to the Data files. The goal of SpectrumViz was identifying whether there were OBAs used in the papers and where in the paper structure. On the web page is an explanation which conclusions can be made of the results. I think the app contributed to the reduced use of OBAs in inkjet art papers and to the use of better normal whitening agents (high L with a smooth continuous spectral plot) and in some cases to better fluorescent brightening agents (on longevity) in said papers. Meanwhile with improved pigment inkjet inks the main fading/color constancy issues are in the substrates printed on. Aardenburg-Imaging.com has excellent longevity testing done for the same purpose. On inkjet inks and the paper whites where Wilhelm-Research has not contributed much on the last aspect. AFAIK you will find paper white measurements there done more according your methodology. Look in the test result PDFs. Interesting observation on OBA/TiO2 containing paper and paper white color shifts due to dark storage there too. That next to articles on gas fading and light induced fading. Sometimes manufacturers react in another way on bad fade test reports: Your Enhanced Matte Paper was originally called Archival Matte Paper. But yellowed terribly over time. The name changed several years ago. Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte, is the cut sheet version of Enhanced Matte Paper. it is not my territory in the graphic arts but this (new) emphasis on matching proofing papers with OBA containing production stock is ignoring the fact that the consumer viewing conditions are as uncertain as they used to be in the past. This type of profiling becomes almost an academic effort and probably stimulates the use of OBAs which will only result in less color constancy in the real world. i thought it had a purpose for outdoor applications but even there I see some practical issues. I know as long as it satisfies the customer, ISO standards etc ............ Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla Dinkla Grafische Techniek Quad, piëzografie, giclée www.pigment-print.com <http://www.pigment-print.com> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 1:28 AM Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > wrote: Found the Lab data for the Enhanced Matte 190! Had to leave the mouse over the media name, for the yellow "tab" information to appear. But... only CIE Lab 96.03 0.6 -2.1? I guess the instrument used to make the measurement, an X-Rite Eye One Basic, means that this is an "M0" or "Unfiltered UV" or "Legacy" measurement. So, using an M1 instrument, the b* value would a little more "negative". But by how much? The Doubleweight Matte 160 is CIE Lab 93.3 1.9 -4.4, a little "better" for my purpose, despite the lower ISO Brightness number? If I'm to stick with Epson, my "best" bet is with Presentation Matte 172, at CIE Lab 94.6 2.2 -5.8. Best / Roger -----Original Message----- From: Martin Orpen <martin(a)idea-digital.com <mailto:martin@idea-digital.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 5:50 PM To: graxx(a)videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca> Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com <http://lists.apple.com> ' List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Epson Enhanced Matte > On 18 Jun 2019, at 21:57, Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > wrote: > > Hate to ask but would anyone have “real” CIE Lab measurements (farbmessung) for this paper? Thanks for your patience and help. Roger Ernst Dinkla’s SpectrumViz has measurements for loads of inkjet papers: <http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm> Requires JRE to run. Cheers -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> ) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/ernst.dinkla%40gmai… This email sent to ernst.dinkla(a)gmail.com <mailto:ernst.dinkla@gmail.com>

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