Ken, I did not realize at first that you sent the question to the ColorSync list and answered directly to you, here is the answer to the list. (but we can continue off-list of course) Danny -------------------------------------------- Ken, "So if I convert the patches to the monitor profile, this should bring the colors into the monitors gamut? " Yes and No! Let's see What is your procedure to: 1- Generate the original patch list? 2- Convert to profile? (I presume using Gamut Tool: Data sent to PCS (buttons on the right side), destination profile: monitor; if not please detail) IMPORTANT: When converting to an RGB Destination profile, the output will be properly computed but will not be clipped in RGB. However, you will get max R, G, or B values over 255 and below zero instead of clipping. These are computed as per the extended sRGB standard and prevent clipping for the apps that manage it (and will be clipped for those who dont). So if you use the file as input in PatchTool, it will be seen as the same as your original patch list (because PatchTool will properly convert the values higher than 255 and lower than zero to the proper XYZ values). To get clipped RGB, you need to use Gamut Tool/Clip check(Data sent to PCS), and manually extract the RGB list from the exported Compare file with a spreadsheet. (I guess I should add an option to perform a "hard" clip on the data for those type of applications!). "..but the Display Check wouldn't let me use the same profile as source and destination" This is equivalent to no color management, and I understand this is what you want. The fact that you cannot select the source profile is not an issue since, when you import these patches, they should be assigned to the proper monitor profile (in the Tabular data tab), and the computed XYZ data should be correct. It is as if the first part of the transform, from RGB to PCS is already done, and the second part part, from PCS to display will be done during the check. However, because of how PatchTool exports and imports RGB, you need hard clipped data, as we discussed above. You can send me some files if it can help the discussion, Danny ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Fleisher To: dpascale Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 4:16 PM Subject: Re: BabelColor PatchTool Thanks Danny. Of course, I read your quote in the manual and I understand all that. The monitor is correctly calibrated and set up. I just wasn't sure how the software was handling the gamut stuff since the LUTs are only in the monitor. So if I convert the patches to the monitor profile, this should bring the colors into the monitors gamut? I tried to do that and then use those patches as the target for Display Check (so that my results are not influenced by out of gamut colors), but the Display Check wouldn't let me use the same profile as source and destination. Anyhow, thanks for your reply. You have verified that I did my testing correctly. Ken On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 4:02 PM, dpascale <dpascale@babelcolor.com> wrote: Hello Ken, -------------- PatchTool Help 4.6, p 97: Important: PatchTool will NOT load the graphics card or monitor LUTs corresponding to a selected destination profile. Make sure the LUTs corresponding to the selected profile are loaded and that the display settings (R, G, and B channels and the display brightness) are appropriate for this profile. In particular, for Windows computers, the LUTs are NOT updated when the display profile is changed using the display properties dialog. A dedicated LUT loading application, or a reboot, is required. -------------- Usually, on a Mac, the LUT are loaded when changing the profile. For specialized displays which have additional internal LUTs, such as Eizo and NEC, there are dedicated manufacturer apps (usually installed as an automatic service) that load the proper LUTs when changing the profile. For any application using the monitor, the only info required (and available), is the profile, so if the selected ClipCheck profile corresponds to the monitor profile, and if that profile was properly assigned, you are OK. Danny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fleisher" <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: "ColorSync Users Mailing List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:28 PM Subject: BabelColor PatchTool When using BabelColor PatchTool for evaluating profile gamut and monitor performance, what exactly is happening when you are using a monitor such as an Eizo where the LUTs are uploaded to the monitor? If I use the Gamut Tools and Display Check, I need to select the destination profile. When I select the monitor's profiles (created with basICColor Display 5), of course the profile does not actually contain the LUTs. So how accurate is the Clip Check in Gamut Tools and the various stats that result from a Gamut Check? Is there some other method for testing these monitors performance when the profile does not contain all of the necessary information? Thanks. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fleisher" <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: "ColorSync Users Mailing List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:28 PM Subject: BabelColor PatchTool
When using BabelColor PatchTool for evaluating profile gamut and monitor performance, what exactly is happening when you are using a monitor such as an Eizo where the LUTs are uploaded to the monitor?
If I use the Gamut Tools and Display Check, I need to select the destination profile. When I select the monitor's profiles (created with basICColor Display 5), of course the profile does not actually contain the LUTs. So how accurate is the Clip Check in Gamut Tools and the various stats that result from a Gamut Check? Is there some other method for testing these monitors performance when the profile does not contain all of the necessary information?
Thanks. Ken _______________________________________________