Dear Roger, Martin is probably referring to the rich blacks that now contain much less yellow than before. When yellow is gone, the apperance of the rich black is now dominated by the cyan and the not-so-transparent magenta inks. The black is the first ink that is laid on paper, then comes cyan and magenta. When looked at an angle, we all now that the magenta ink produces a surface reflection that turns the overall appearance to "purple". You may still measure a 'colorimetrically correct' black but visual appearance tells a different story. Best, Refik -------------------------------------------------------- Refik Telhan, EE B.Sc. Light and Color Management Consultancy Aydogdu Sokak 12A, Tarabya Mahallesi Sariyer, 34457, Istanbul, Turkey Mobile: + (90) (532) 426 21 87 -------------------------------------------------------- On 10.06.2019 17:59, "colorsync-users on behalf of Roger Breton via colorsync-users" <colorsync-users-bounces+rtelhan=icloud.com@lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote: Quick comment, Martin. On recent press calibrations, I noticed that Black ink is often quite warm, like b* = +4.00 to +5 and +6. But it has not been my personal experience that Black ink is "on the blue side"? I'll have to revisit some of my observations to double-check. / Roger -----Original Message----- From: Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 10:52 AM To: graxx@videotron.ca Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Fogra 51 and 52 > On 10 Jun 2019, at 14:45, Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote: > > Yet, I gather that the data was extensively tested "visually" between participating proofing vendors and printers, and that "everyone" was satisfied with the results. (I got the points you raised on your reply on the ECI List and will go through them) I’m not happy with the results. And I’m not happy with the changes that this has somehow caused to the older proofing standards like 39 and 47. It is now impossible to accurately proof anything composed predominantly of black ink. Black is now blue-shifted on proof. CMYK black and white images are a chilly blue black now — even in Fogra 39 — and look nothing like the printed result. We should have a competition to see how blue patch A18 from a Fogra 39 media wedge can be before it fails verification. I reckon you can hit b -4 and still get a pass on a Fogra proof. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/rtelhan%40icloud.com This email sent to rtelhan@icloud.com