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On May 18, 2014, at 2:00 PM, colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Looking for advice about DeviceN and DeviceGray (Brian Lawler) 2. Re: Looking for advice about DeviceN and DeviceGray (Olaf Drümmer) 3. Re: Looking for advice about DeviceN and DeviceGray (edward taffel)
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Message: 1 Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 06:35:10 -0700 From: Brian Lawler <brian@thelawlers.com> To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Looking for advice about DeviceN and DeviceGray Message-ID: <21EF54F9-F6B5-42C7-B9D8-FC791CFDD6E5@thelawlers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello, fellow color synkers,
I encountered a problem yesterday with a project produced using offset lithography on a Kodak Trendsetter platesetter and Prinergy prepress software.
The project involved placing two PDF files produced elsewhere into an InDesign layout, and creating a PDF for output.
This is a black-only job.
The placed PDF files are monochrome in appearance, and were not created as RGB graphics.
In the finished PDF, the graphics appear normal, and in the Print Production>Output Preview palette in Acrobat, these graphic appear only on the black plate. There is no "rich black."
But when we render these files to the Trendsetter, the graphics disappear.
On closer examination in Output Preview, using the Object Inspector, these graphics are all showing as either DeviceGray or DeviceN colors.
After this happened, I returned to Acrobat Pro, and using PitStop Professional 12, did a batch conversion using one of the stock functions, that being "Clean up Black".
This resulted in every object being converted from its original DeviceGray or DeviceN color to a value of gray in DeviceCMYK. And, once this was done, the PDFs imaged fine on the black plate.
And, life is good again.
My question, then, is when items appear on the Black plate, and are viewed there, but then subsequently disappear from the plate, what is the problem?
I acknowledge that this may be a Prinergy question, but I thought I would pose it to the ColorSync team to get your ideas.
Thank you, and have a great day,
Brian P. Lawler
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Message: 2 Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 16:46:32 +0200 From: Olaf Drümmer <olaflist@callassoftware.com> To: Brian Lawler <brian@thelawlers.com> Cc: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Looking for advice about DeviceN and DeviceGray Message-ID: <8E8017AE-F6B0-4AE2-8649-DCBEEBE8C5DC@callassoftware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Brian,
I really think this is a Prinergy problem.
But one question before I get into any details: - did you save the file destined for output on the plate setter as a PDF/X file? If not, why not? If yes, what output intent did you set? In general, Acrobat Output Preview is highly reliable when trying to find out what marks are made on which plate.
Furthermore, there are all kinds of ways - to have gotten the source material created/saved/exported inadequately - to get the export to PDF setup in InDesign wrong Without the source and final files at hand it;'s difficult to tell though.
In general, there are several ways to express marks on just the black channel (assuming output mode is to CMYK, numbers given below serve as an example for 100% black): - 0.0 DeviceGray - 1.0 Separation Black - 0 / 0 / 0 / 1.0 DeviceCMYK - DeviceN with 1 colorant "Black", value 1.0 - DeviceN with 2 or more colorants, including 1 colorant "Black", value 1.0, other colorant(s) "None" or named colorants set to 0.0 Creating applications sometimes pick whatever is most suitable to get the job done. In the context of imaging to a plate setter this often has to do with overprint.
HTH.
Olaf
On 18 May 2014, at 15:35, Brian Lawler <brian@thelawlers.com> wrote:
Hello, fellow color synkers,
I encountered a problem yesterday with a project produced using offset lithography on a Kodak Trendsetter platesetter and Prinergy prepress software.
The project involved placing two PDF files produced elsewhere into an InDesign layout, and creating a PDF for output.
This is a black-only job.
The placed PDF files are monochrome in appearance, and were not created as RGB graphics.
In the finished PDF, the graphics appear normal, and in the Print Production>Output Preview palette in Acrobat, these graphic appear only on the black plate. There is no "rich black."
But when we render these files to the Trendsetter, the graphics disappear.
On closer examination in Output Preview, using the Object Inspector, these graphics are all showing as either DeviceGray or DeviceN colors.
After this happened, I returned to Acrobat Pro, and using PitStop Professional 12, did a batch conversion using one of the stock functions, that being "Clean up Black".
This resulted in every object being converted from its original DeviceGray or DeviceN color to a value of gray in DeviceCMYK. And, once this was done, the PDFs imaged fine on the black plate.
And, life is good again.
My question, then, is when items appear on the Black plate, and are viewed there, but then subsequently disappear from the plate, what is the problem?
I acknowledge that this may be a Prinergy question, but I thought I would pose it to the ColorSync team to get your ideas.
Thank you, and have a great day,
Brian P. Lawler
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Message: 3 Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 11:39:13 -0400 From: edward taffel <etaffel@me.com> To: Brian Lawler <brian@thelawlers.com> Cc: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Looking for advice about DeviceN and DeviceGray Message-ID: <8C124D34-A005-443F-A945-778317366E4F@me.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
hello brian,
when you say ‘black-only’ & rich black in the same context, i surmise the intention is to produce a single spot plate job, & i expect the spot color (a PMS color?) is characterized by DeviceN. a rich black by definition when specified in cmyk has other color components besides black [k]: it seems likely your ‘clean up black’ operation either
a) utilized the DeviceN alternate space [the space intended for rendering to process-color only devices, e.g. a display] & coordinates to produce the four-color job—unlikely what the client intended, as setup cost is now quadrupled; or
b) dumped the rich black altogether—in which case you can still print from the k plate, but w/ potentially undesired result.
i should not have expected to see DeviceGray in this job, but there may be creatively valid reasons for this. you should preflight the file to be sure what black your printing.
hope this helps, edward taffel
On May 18, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Brian Lawler <brian@thelawlers.com> wrote:
Hello, fellow color synkers,
I encountered a problem yesterday with a project produced using offset lithography on a Kodak Trendsetter platesetter and Prinergy prepress software.
The project involved placing two PDF files produced elsewhere into an InDesign layout, and creating a PDF for output.
This is a black-only job.
The placed PDF files are monochrome in appearance, and were not created as RGB graphics.
In the finished PDF, the graphics appear normal, and in the Print Production>Output Preview palette in Acrobat, these graphic appear only on the black plate. There is no "rich black."
But when we render these files to the Trendsetter, the graphics disappear.
On closer examination in Output Preview, using the Object Inspector, these graphics are all showing as either DeviceGray or DeviceN colors.
After this happened, I returned to Acrobat Pro, and using PitStop Professional 12, did a batch conversion using one of the stock functions, that being "Clean up Black".
This resulted in every object being converted from its original DeviceGray or DeviceN color to a value of gray in DeviceCMYK. And, once this was done, the PDFs imaged fine on the black plate.
And, life is good again.
My question, then, is when items appear on the Black plate, and are viewed there, but then subsequently disappear from the plate, what is the problem?
I acknowledge that this may be a Prinergy question, but I thought I would pose it to the ColorSync team to get your ideas.
Thank you, and have a great day,
Brian P. Lawler
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/etaffel%40me.com
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