Axel, Oh, ok… Well, my understanding of the ‘alternate color space’ is that it’s only there as something of a backup, in case the file is sent to a RIP that doesn’t recognize the spot color — doesn’t have a library or doesn’t have that name in its library. In that case, the RIP uses the alternate color in its place. I did some fooling around with this a long, long time ago, and have probably forgotten most of it, but as I recall, the alternate color space is whatever you define it to be. But unless you tell it different, it will be the CMYK or RGB working space you’re using in your application when you create the file, most usually that winding being the CMYK working space. I do know that in Acrobat it’s possible to go into a pdf and change the alternate space, because I did it, way back when; and I always kind of wondered if I went in and changed it to L*a*b* if that would be a way to get around missing libraries or missing colors. But I never really pursued that. However, yes, the alternate space will always be some defined color space, meaning it will have an ICC profile. Anyway, the thing is that alternate colors really should be just a fallback position. My opinion would be if you want to use a spot colors, create a workflow for spot colors. If you want to use process colors, create that workflow. But I wouldn’t ever expect alternate colors to ‘carry the load’ themselves, so to speak. Mike On Jun 9, 2022, at 12:03 PM, Axel Robert <axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> wrote: Hello Mike. Nice to meet you. Thank you for your explanations. But I’m wondering if I finally did not explain my issue in a wrong way. ☹ Because it’s not a RIP or DFE matter. The problem occurs at the beginning of the stage in the PDF itself. The Spot Color should be known with an Alternate Color Space in CMYK or Lab. And in such a manner, the result would be to read Lab or CMYK in it, right? However, The Alternate Color Space is tagged as ICC profile which is obviously odd. So, my question is more about what happens during the export from the native file before any further transformations in a prepress workflow. 😊 Best. Axel From: "typhoon correctcolor.org<http://correctcolor.org/>" <typhoon@correctcolor.org<mailto:typhoon@correctcolor.org>> Date: Thursday 9 June 2022 at 18:28 To: Axel ROBERT <axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> Cc: Jon Meyer <jonmeyer@grafixgear.com<mailto:jonmeyer@grafixgear.com>>, "colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Spot Colors | Alternate Color Space behaviour | PDF export. You don't often get email from typhoon@correctcolor.org<mailto:typhoon@correctcolor.org>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> Axel, Actually, the way you describe spot colors in Illustrator should be irrelevant. If printing to a traditional press, then a spot color should be an actual ’spot’ color, and a separate plate, and as long as it is, and you ink up that fountain with the right ink, it works. If printing to digital, the ’spot’ color is a L*a*b* value, but in the RIP, and that L*a*b* value in the RIP corresponds to the spot color name. The name is all that matters in the file. The name in the file must correspond exactly to the name in the RIP that is associated with the L*a*b* value that spot color should represent. If it’s a true spot color, the RIP will disregard any color information in the file and attempt to print that L*a*b* value, provided it recognizes the name, meaning that the name is in its spot color library, and that library is turned on. Somewhere in your conversion, there’s always a “convert spots to process” option. That needs to be disabled. If your spots are coming through with any color information other than that they are spot colors, that would be the first place to look. Mike Adams Correct Color On Jun 9, 2022, at 10:25 AM, Axel Robert via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote: Hello Jon. This transformation unfortunately occurs in the Adobe export process itself before doing any ripping action afterwards. I know that Spot Colors shall be describe in Lab (even if some former Adobe Pantone swatches are still in CMYK). But the problem arises in the process from the source file to final PDF export, so far. That's why I don't understand this behavior, so far. Sincerely. Axel On 09/06/2022 17:02, "Jon Meyer" <jonmeyer@grafixgear.com<mailto:jonmeyer@grafixgear.com>> wrote: [You don't often get email from jonmeyer@grafixgear.com<mailto:jonmeyer@grafixgear.com>. Learn why this is important at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ] Hello Axel - The only correct way to describe spot color is in L*a*b* values. This is supported in Illustrator. I would not waste time with attempting to rig another workflow (unless your RIP is not L*a*b* compliant - in which case one must reduce expectations to just pleasing color). Jon On Jun 9, 2022, at 10:03 AM, Axel Robert via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote: Good afternoon. I was wondering if somebody else already experienced and solved this problem, as well. We built, dedicated to creative agencies, a specific color settings and pdf export couple for certain production files in which we manage ourselves the RGB to CMYK conversion. It’s almost a late binding workflow before sending the final PDF to our printers. So, all raster images remain in a specific RGB color space while Benday and vectors are still in CMYK. So far, we did have any issue, but we recently received a document with a Spot Color template in it. And when we checked it, it appeared it had been tagged on the Alternate Color Space with an ICC profile (no more specific indication). We tried to find why without any success. But we also experienced the same after many tests in In Design and Illustrator by creating a simple vector shape to which we added a Spot Color from the latest Pantone library. The PDF export has no color conversion except an OI and OC for the PDF itself. And despite all the color swatches we use, the result is equal. The only difference lies when we use a PDF Export Preset which converts colors to the destination. In such a way, the Spot Color uses the CMYK mode as by default Alternate Color Space. How is it possible? Would you have any idea? Thanks! Axel UBISOFT | Axel ROBERT |Senior Manager, Prepress & Quality Ubisoft encourages work/life balance and embraces flexibility. My workday may look different than your workday. I have sent this message at a time that suits my work pattern, but it is not my expectation that you read, respond or follow up on this email outside your working hours. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. 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