Good morning, Thank you for your feedback. To Martin and Thomas. I agree. This software needs to be improved. By the way, the failure doesn't come from the paper, but from a primary color, more specifically the 100% Magenta. This solid colour is out of tolerance for the DeltaH. To Andreas. I am going to follow your suggestions even if the blamed sample is not the Cyan but the Magenta. You however are right when you say that the rounding is not handled consistently between the software. They differ but are almost coherent between those judging ok or not. Nonetheless I yesterday evening tested with PatchTool from BabelColor. The result is coherent with Alwan and basICColor. Axel De : "colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com>> Répondre à : "colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Date : mercredi 24 septembre 2014 21:00 À : "colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Objet : Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 11, Issue 141 Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com> You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-owner@lists.apple.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Inconsistent proof control results. (Axel Robert) 2. Re: Inconsistent proof control results. (Martin Orpen) 3. Re: Inconsistent proof control results. (Thomas Richard) 4. Re: Inconsistent proof control results. (Andreas Kraushaar) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:02:12 +0000 From: Axel Robert <axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> To: "colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Inconsistent proof control results. Message-ID: <D048A264.257FF%axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:D048A264.257FF%axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear all, I would like to have your opinion according the quality of proofing software control results. I did a contract proof (12647-7) and test it on several Proof Control software. And the results are very disappointing for me because no one is correlated to the others. It's very frustrating and even more embarrassing for our production which goes to our Printers all around the world. Let me be more explicit. A contract proof has been made with a GMG ColorProof RIP. The first time i verified it with GMG ProofControl, it failed. I tested it with Oris Certified and it passed. I tested it with Alwan Print Verifier and it failed. I tested it with basICColor Catch Qc and it failed. I tested again in GMG ProofControl after the software crashed, relaunched the PC and the software and it passed. Besides basICColor where I used the FD7, all others softwares used the same i1Pro RevD. Any idea or suggestions? Thank you. Axel Axel Robert | UBISOFT Prepress & graphic Chain quality manager ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:20:19 +0100 From: Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com<mailto:martin@idea-digital.com>> To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Inconsistent proof control results. Message-ID: <1C9E7F24-C4CA-469F-A992-82B67241F14F@idea-digital.com<mailto:1C9E7F24-C4CA-469F-A992-82B67241F14F@idea-digital.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 24 Sep 2014, at 16:02, Axel Robert <axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> wrote: A contract proof has been made with a GMG ColorProof RIP. The first time i verified it with GMG ProofControl, it failed. I tested it with Oris Certified and it passed. I tested it with Alwan Print Verifier and it failed. I tested it with basICColor Catch Qc and it failed. I tested again in GMG ProofControl after the software crashed, relaunched the PC and the software and it passed. ProofControl is an appallingly written bit of software. Older versions will not only crash but also kill the performance of the whole platform as the job database will soak up *all* of the memory resources of your PC. The latest version doesn’t do this but still freezes and falls over on a daily basis :-( It’d be helpful if you said what caused the validation failure though — if it’s failure on the yellow primary then this is usually caused by paper feed adjustment issues. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:21:44 +0200 From: Thomas Richard <tr@e-b-v.de<mailto:tr@e-b-v.de>> To: "colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Inconsistent proof control results. Message-ID: <p0623090dd048914bd005@[192.168.111.25]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello Axel, A contract proof has been made with a GMG ColorProof RIP. The first time i verified it with GMG ProofControl, it failed. I tested it with Oris Certified and it passed. I tested it with Alwan Print Verifier and it failed. I tested it with basICColor Catch Qc and it failed. I tested again in GMG ProofControl after the software crashed, relaunched the PC and the software and it passed. Besides basICColor where I used the FD7, all others softwares used the same i1Pro RevD. Any idea or suggestions? Are those measurements homogenous? Was it always the same field that causes the fail? Was it a very close 'Out of Range' field? MfG Thomas Richard ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 18:48:55 +0200 From: Andreas Kraushaar <andreas.kraushaar@gmx.de<mailto:andreas.kraushaar@gmx.de>> To: Axel Robert <axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> Cc: "colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Inconsistent proof control results. Message-ID: <76E62F7D-10BE-4366-BD5D-B898A26293A4@gmx.de<mailto:76E62F7D-10BE-4366-BD5D-B898A26293A4@gmx.de>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi Axel, to sort out differences resulting from repeated readings (repeatability) I would start with one measurement (file) and import the measurement data to be sure to only check the conformance assessment part (and instrument precision, patch uniformity, XRGA conversion etc). If the mismatch is only (mostly) on the 100 Cyan patch it is quite likely an XRGA “issue” :-) Then look at the protocols and download the Fogra Excel spreadsheet (not sexy but functional): http://www.fogra.org/en/fogra-fogracert-en/print/processstandard-digital/psd... I can imagine that the rounding is not handled consistently. I hesitate to say “correctly” since we clarified the rounding with ISO 12647-8. The correct interpretation can be found in PSD (chapter 6) alongside with some examples. http://www.fogra.org/en/fogra-standardization/digital-printing-2-48/digital-... looking forward to your findings regards Andy Kraushaar On 24 Sep 2014, at 17:02, Axel Robert <axel.robert@ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> wrote: Dear all, I would like to have your opinion according the quality of proofing software control results. I did a contract proof (12647-7) and test it on several Proof Control software. And the results are very disappointing for me because no one is correlated to the others. It's very frustrating and even more embarrassing for our production which goes to our Printers all around the world. Let me be more explicit. A contract proof has been made with a GMG ColorProof RIP. The first time i verified it with GMG ProofControl, it failed. I tested it with Oris Certified and it passed. I tested it with Alwan Print Verifier and it failed. I tested it with basICColor Catch Qc and it failed. I tested again in GMG ProofControl after the software crashed, relaunched the PC and the software and it passed. Besides basICColor where I used the FD7, all others softwares used the same i1Pro RevD. Any idea or suggestions? Thank you. Axel Axel Robert | UBISOFT Prepress & graphic Chain quality manager _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/andreas.kraushaar%40... This email sent to andreas.kraushaar@gmx.de<mailto:andreas.kraushaar@gmx.de> Follow us on Twitter - twitter.com/fogra_org Dr.-Ing. Andreas Kraushaar Dept. Prepress Fogra Graphic Technology Research Association Streitfeldstrasse 19 81673 Munich, Germany Telefon: +49 89. 431 82 - 335 Telefax: +49 89. 431 82 - 100 E-mail: kraushaar@fogra.org<mailto:kraushaar@fogra.org> Internet: www.fogra.org ----------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an addressee or otherwise authorized to receive this message, you should not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this e-mail or any information contained in the message. 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