Re: Color Management for iPad? / Corporate colors?
Color management for pictures on iPad… OK, but what about corporate colors on iPad? here´s the link of a demo about "color management for corporate colors on iPad: http://www.couleur911.com/ipad_color_management_4_en.html I don’t know what digital magazine and book publishers for iPad are doing to solve this issue? Maybe they don’t do anything and simply convert everything to sRGB? What do you think? Louis Dery www.couleur911.com
I'm a big fan of sRGB -- yeah! Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Louis Dery Sent: August-09-11 6:54 PM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Color Management for iPad? / Corporate colors? Color management for pictures on iPad OK, but what about corporate colors on iPad? here´s the link of a demo about "color management for corporate colors on iPad: http://www.couleur911.com/ipad_color_management_4_en.html I dont know what digital magazine and book publishers for iPad are doing to solve this issue? Maybe they dont do anything and simply convert everything to sRGB? What do you think? Louis Dery www.couleur911.com _______________________________________________
I think that, unless you have something useful to say, you might want to stop spamming your "couleur911" site... Sincerely, René Damkot www.damkot.com www.getcolormanaged.com Sent from my iPhone On 10 aug. 2011, at 00:54, Louis Dery <louisdery@videotron.ca> wrote:
Color management for pictures on iPad… OK, but what about corporate colors on iPad?
here´s the link of a demo about "color management for corporate colors on iPad:
http://www.couleur911.com/ipad_color_management_4_en.html
I don’t know what digital magazine and book publishers for iPad are doing to solve this issue? Maybe they don’t do anything and simply convert everything to sRGB? What do you think?
Louis Dery www.couleur911.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/rene%40damkot.com
This email sent to rene@damkot.com
Dear René, I am link my information about color management for iPad on my web site since it is not possible to put images on the ColorSync mailing list. If you think this information is useless for the list members let me know. I have nothing to sell, just share information "visually" Regards, Louis Dery Le 2011-08-09 à 21:44, Rene Damkot a écrit :
I think that, unless you have something useful to say, you might want to stop spamming your "couleur911" site...
Sincerely,
René Damkot www.damkot.com www.getcolormanaged.com
Sent from my iPhone
On 10 aug. 2011, at 00:54, Louis Dery <louisdery@videotron.ca> wrote:
Color management for pictures on iPad… OK, but what about corporate colors on iPad?
here´s the link of a demo about "color management for corporate colors on iPad:
http://www.couleur911.com/ipad_color_management_4_en.html
I don’t know what digital magazine and book publishers for iPad are doing to solve this issue? Maybe they don’t do anything and simply convert everything to sRGB? What do you think?
Louis Dery www.couleur911.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/rene%40damkot.com
This email sent to rene@damkot.com
René, I monitor this list closely and I must say that Louis is the first poster to dare suggest a specific colorspace for use on the iPad. Even though it is a colorspace that may not have everyone's favour here. I think this was a constructive statement on his part. What colorspace would YOU suggest? Best / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Louis Dery Sent: August-09-11 9:51 PM To: Rene Damkot Cc: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Color Management for iPad? / Corporate colors? Dear René, I am link my information about color management for iPad on my web site since it is not possible to put images on the ColorSync mailing list. If you think this information is useless for the list members let me know. I have nothing to sell, just share information "visually" Regards, Louis Dery Le 2011-08-09 à 21:44, Rene Damkot a écrit :
I think that, unless you have something useful to say, you might want to stop spamming your "couleur911" site...
Sincerely,
René Damkot www.damkot.com www.getcolormanaged.com
Sent from my iPhone
On 10 aug. 2011, at 00:54, Louis Dery <louisdery@videotron.ca> wrote:
Color management for pictures on iPad OK, but what about corporate colors on iPad?
here´s the link of a demo about "color management for corporate colors on iPad:
http://www.couleur911.com/ipad_color_management_4_en.html
I dont know what digital magazine and book publishers for iPad are doing to solve this issue? Maybe they dont do anything and simply convert everything to sRGB? What do you think?
Louis Dery www.couleur911.com _______________________________________________
Good question, Roger ! I would like to go even further: What expectations do people have regarding color on the iPad / similar devices ? How big a value do you create by calibrating / profiling an iPad ? When we talk about print media this is an easy answer. When we talk about the web, it's a bit blurry, but we have at least some experience. When we talk about the iPad and similar devices, this is no easy answer because environments and usage differ from a PC or laptop: Environments: PCs are limited to office like setups. Indirect lighting, usually a bit dim. And if you are serious on color you take the right steps to be able to judge colors without environmental deviation. An iPad is used when commuting (inconsistent light - changing every few seconds), in a park (green grass & trees, blue sky), a coffee shop (dim, orange brownish), the living room (dim, warm colors) etc… Does color management work in such environments ? Is it possible to cover all of these environments with a single calibration / profile ? If not, is it possible to automatically detect these environments and to adjust color management as needed without user activity ? How do you handle automatic background light dimming, which is necessary for outdoor viewing ? How to compensate display shifting due to temperatures changes when taking the iPad outside ? Expectations: To most people the iPad is a device like an iPhone. Do you expect colors to be correct on a mobile telephone ? I don't. But I would care to have pleasing colors and crisp details on a digital picture frame. Would I expect to have matching colors between the iPad and print ? Would I want to compare ? Would I notice a mismatch if a printed item does not match the display on an iPad ? How would I feel about the difference (considering the different contrast ratios) ? I don't know. Based on my experience on the iPhone the crispier digital display will be more pleasing and slight differences would be interpreted as an enhancement if noticed at all. There are still situations where color accuracy counts: As a designer I would care about color when I show my work to a customer hoping to get a contract, or as a photographer presenting my pictures. But is the iPad's display suitable for color correct work ? When I look at the gammuts displayed on Rene's web site I doubt that there is a big value in it. Bottom line for me: Color management has different needs on an iPad than what we are experienced to. And while I wish there would be the tools to calibrate and profile an iPad, and APIs to create apps for those who need color management, expectance might be to high and the value gained with it might be a lot less than anticipated. Just my 2 cents, Karsten Am 10.08.2011 um 12:50 schrieb Roger Breton:
René,
I monitor this list closely and I must say that Louis is the first poster to dare suggest a specific colorspace for use on the iPad. Even though it is a colorspace that may not have everyone's favour here. I think this was a constructive statement on his part.
What colorspace would YOU suggest?
Best / Roger
I'd say that on a small gamut device, such as an iPad, color management does more harm then good: unless there's a perceptual rendering available, out of gamut colors will be clipped. I'd rather see an image "about correct" without clipping (not a big deal) then an image that's color correct while in gamut, but with out of gamut parts clipping (very visible). It's not like anyone would be using an iPad to proof colors. Aim for "pleasing" rather then "accurate" in this case. Then again, the only reason for my opinion in this is the limited gamut of the screen: were the iPad closer to sRGB, or perceptual rendering would be available, Color management would be very nice indeed. (best of both worlds) Grtx, René Damkot www.damkot.com www.getcolormanaged.com Sent from my iPhone On 10 aug. 2011, at 15:23, Karsten Krüger <kk@kkrueger.de> wrote:
Good question, Roger !
I would like to go even further:
What expectations do people have regarding color on the iPad / similar devices ? How big a value do you create by calibrating / profiling an iPad ?
When we talk about print media this is an easy answer. When we talk about the web, it's a bit blurry, but we have at least some experience. When we talk about the iPad and similar devices, this is no easy answer because environments and usage differ from a PC or laptop:
Environments:
PCs are limited to office like setups. Indirect lighting, usually a bit dim. And if you are serious on color you take the right steps to be able to judge colors without environmental deviation.
An iPad is used when commuting (inconsistent light - changing every few seconds), in a park (green grass & trees, blue sky), a coffee shop (dim, orange brownish), the living room (dim, warm colors) etc… Does color management work in such environments ? Is it possible to cover all of these environments with a single calibration / profile ? If not, is it possible to automatically detect these environments and to adjust color management as needed without user activity ? How do you handle automatic background light dimming, which is necessary for outdoor viewing ? How to compensate display shifting due to temperatures changes when taking the iPad outside ?
Expectations:
To most people the iPad is a device like an iPhone. Do you expect colors to be correct on a mobile telephone ? I don't. But I would care to have pleasing colors and crisp details on a digital picture frame. Would I expect to have matching colors between the iPad and print ? Would I want to compare ? Would I notice a mismatch if a printed item does not match the display on an iPad ? How would I feel about the difference (considering the different contrast ratios) ? I don't know. Based on my experience on the iPhone the crispier digital display will be more pleasing and slight differences would be interpreted as an enhancement if noticed at all.
There are still situations where color accuracy counts: As a designer I would care about color when I show my work to a customer hoping to get a contract, or as a photographer presenting my pictures. But is the iPad's display suitable for color correct work ? When I look at the gammuts displayed on Rene's web site I doubt that there is a big value in it.
Bottom line for me:
Color management has different needs on an iPad than what we are experienced to. And while I wish there would be the tools to calibrate and profile an iPad, and APIs to create apps for those who need color management, expectance might be to high and the value gained with it might be a lot less than anticipated.
Just my 2 cents, Karsten
Am 10.08.2011 um 12:50 schrieb Roger Breton:
René,
I monitor this list closely and I must say that Louis is the first poster to dare suggest a specific colorspace for use on the iPad. Even though it is a colorspace that may not have everyone's favour here. I think this was a constructive statement on his part.
What colorspace would YOU suggest?
Best / Roger
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/rene%40damkot.com
This email sent to rene@damkot.com
René, How about the suggestion to treat the iPad as an "sRGB" devices and move on with life? Workable? Acceptable? Oversimplification? "Pleasing" solution? Why not? What do you think? Playing the devil's advocate... Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Rene Damkot Sent: August-10-11 8:05 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Cc: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Color Management for iPad? / Corporate colors? I'd say that on a small gamut device, such as an iPad, color management does more harm then good: unless there's a perceptual rendering available, out of gamut colors will be clipped. I'd rather see an image "about correct" without clipping (not a big deal) then an image that's color correct while in gamut, but with out of gamut parts clipping (very visible). It's not like anyone would be using an iPad to proof colors. Aim for "pleasing" rather then "accurate" in this case. Then again, the only reason for my opinion in this is the limited gamut of the screen: were the iPad closer to sRGB, or perceptual rendering would be available, Color management would be very nice indeed. (best of both worlds) Grtx, René Damkot www.damkot.com www.getcolormanaged.com Sent from my iPhone On 10 aug. 2011, at 15:23, Karsten Krüger <kk@kkrueger.de> wrote:
Good question, Roger !
I would like to go even further:
What expectations do people have regarding color on the iPad / similar devices ? How big a value do you create by calibrating / profiling an iPad ?
When we talk about print media this is an easy answer. When we talk about the web, it's a bit blurry, but we have at least some experience. When we talk about the iPad and similar devices, this is no easy answer because environments and usage differ from a PC or laptop:
Environments:
PCs are limited to office like setups. Indirect lighting, usually a bit dim. And if you are serious on color you take the right steps to be able to judge colors without environmental deviation.
An iPad is used when commuting (inconsistent light - changing every few seconds), in a park (green grass & trees, blue sky), a coffee shop (dim, orange brownish), the living room (dim, warm colors) etc… Does color management work in such environments ? Is it possible to cover all of these environments with a single calibration / profile ? If not, is it possible to automatically detect these environments and to adjust color management as needed without user activity ? How do you handle automatic background light dimming, which is necessary for outdoor viewing ? How to compensate display shifting due to temperatures changes when taking the iPad outside ?
Expectations:
To most people the iPad is a device like an iPhone. Do you expect colors to be correct on a mobile telephone ? I don't. But I would care to have pleasing colors and crisp details on a digital picture frame. Would I expect to have matching colors between the iPad and print ? Would I want to compare ? Would I notice a mismatch if a printed item does not match the display on an iPad ? How would I feel about the difference (considering the different contrast ratios) ? I don't know. Based on my experience on the iPhone the crispier digital display will be more pleasing and slight differences would be interpreted as an enhancement if noticed at all.
There are still situations where color accuracy counts: As a designer I would care about color when I show my work to a customer hoping to get a contract, or as a photographer presenting my pictures. But is the iPad's display suitable for color correct work ? When I look at the gammuts displayed on Rene's web site I doubt that there is a big value in it.
Bottom line for me:
Color management has different needs on an iPad than what we are experienced to. And while I wish there would be the tools to calibrate and profile an iPad, and APIs to create apps for those who need color management, expectance might be to high and the value gained with it might be a lot less than anticipated.
Just my 2 cents, Karsten
Am 10.08.2011 um 12:50 schrieb Roger Breton:
René,
I monitor this list closely and I must say that Louis is the first poster to dare suggest a specific colorspace for use on the iPad. Even though it is a colorspace that may not have everyone's favour here. I think this was a constructive statement on his part.
What colorspace would YOU suggest?
Best / Roger
Roger, If by that you mean "assume sRGB for display". I'd say yes. Just do what Safari (and most of Windows) has always done. In this case, it actually makes a bit sense. ;) Grtx, René Damkot www.damkot.com www.getcolormanaged.com On 11-08-11 (w 32) 02:24, Roger Breton wrote:
René,
How about the suggestion to treat the iPad as an "sRGB" devices and move on with life? Workable? Acceptable? Oversimplification? "Pleasing" solution? Why not?
What do you think?
Playing the devil's advocate...
Roger
-----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Rene Damkot Sent: August-10-11 8:05 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Cc: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Color Management for iPad? / Corporate colors?
I'd say that on a small gamut device, such as an iPad, color management does more harm then good: unless there's a perceptual rendering available, out of gamut colors will be clipped. I'd rather see an image "about correct" without clipping (not a big deal) then an image that's color correct while in gamut, but with out of gamut parts clipping (very visible). It's not like anyone would be using an iPad to proof colors. Aim for "pleasing" rather then "accurate" in this case. Then again, the only reason for my opinion in this is the limited gamut of the screen: were the iPad closer to sRGB, or perceptual rendering would be available, Color management would be very nice indeed. (best of both worlds)
Grtx,
René Damkot www.damkot.com www.getcolormanaged.com
Sent from my iPhone
On 10 aug. 2011, at 15:23, Karsten Krüger<kk@kkrueger.de> wrote:
Good question, Roger !
I would like to go even further:
What expectations do people have regarding color on the iPad / similar devices ? How big a value do you create by calibrating / profiling an iPad ?
When we talk about print media this is an easy answer. When we talk about the web, it's a bit blurry, but we have at least some experience. When we talk about the iPad and similar devices, this is no easy answer because environments and usage differ from a PC or laptop:
Environments:
PCs are limited to office like setups. Indirect lighting, usually a bit dim. And if you are serious on color you take the right steps to be able to judge colors without environmental deviation.
An iPad is used when commuting (inconsistent light - changing every few seconds), in a park (green grass& trees, blue sky), a coffee shop (dim, orange brownish), the living room (dim, warm colors) etc… Does color management work in such environments ? Is it possible to cover all of these environments with a single calibration / profile ? If not, is it possible to automatically detect these environments and to adjust color management as needed without user activity ? How do you handle automatic background light dimming, which is necessary for outdoor viewing ? How to compensate display shifting due to temperatures changes when taking the iPad outside ?
Expectations:
To most people the iPad is a device like an iPhone. Do you expect colors to be correct on a mobile telephone ? I don't. But I would care to have pleasing colors and crisp details on a digital picture frame. Would I expect to have matching colors between the iPad and print ? Would I want to compare ? Would I notice a mismatch if a printed item does not match the display on an iPad ? How would I feel about the difference (considering the different contrast ratios) ? I don't know. Based on my experience on the iPhone the crispier digital display will be more pleasing and slight differences would be interpreted as an enhancement if noticed at all.
There are still situations where color accuracy counts: As a designer I would care about color when I show my work to a customer hoping to get a contract, or as a photographer presenting my pictures. But is the iPad's display suitable for color correct work ? When I look at the gammuts displayed on Rene's web site I doubt that there is a big value in it.
Bottom line for me:
Color management has different needs on an iPad than what we are experienced to. And while I wish there would be the tools to calibrate and profile an iPad, and APIs to create apps for those who need color management, expectance might be to high and the value gained with it might be a lot less than anticipated.
Just my 2 cents, Karsten
Am 10.08.2011 um 12:50 schrieb Roger Breton:
René,
I monitor this list closely and I must say that Louis is the first poster to dare suggest a specific colorspace for use on the iPad. Even though it is a colorspace that may not have everyone's favour here. I think this was a constructive statement on his part.
What colorspace would YOU suggest?
Best / Roger
I have an iPad.icc profile for a while that I can't trace back to its original source of reference. I'm not aware if there is a Files section to upload it to for anyone who might care to explore it, but as Louis suggested, it varies from Generic RGB most in its blue component. WHITE POINT: X=0.964; Y=1.000; Z: 0.825 BLACK POINT: X=0.001; Y=0.001; Z: 0.002 COLORANT TRISTIMULUS: R: X=0.413; Y=0.230; Z: 0.024 G: X=0.386; Y=0.609; Z: 0.086 B: X=0.166; Y=0.161; Z: 0.715 TRISTIMULUS VALUE: X=434.089; Y=468.762; Z: 475.157 INFO: ProfileType = Monitor MntrMode = Profile ProfileFormat = 2 Copyright = "Copyright by Serum Network GmbH" Creator = CoLg Flags = 0 Attributes0 = 0 Attributes1 = 0 SaveProfilerData = 0 MntrFormat = 0 SaveProfilerInfo = 1 ProfilerVersion = "1.9.71, build 9059" -- ___________________________________________________ RICK GORDON EMERALD VALLEY GRAPHICS AND CONSULTING ___________________________________________________ WWW: http://www.shelterpub.com
Corporate colors, logos and spot colors are big issues. Our Pantone PMS+ data set has sRGB representations. Out of gamut colors are mapped by artists into the sRGB space and those colors are in the distributed data bases. Converting everything to sRGB guarantees that the color may not be correct, but the shifts will be relatively uniform when presented on a lower gamut device such as the iPad. The native luminance of the iPad is quite high so the perception of colorfulness somewhat overwhelms the physical lack of gamut. The iPad does do some native display rendering, but I am not sure the nature of the source data assumption. It would make sense to assume sRGB because that is the native assumption of the web. Regards, Tom -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+tlianza=xrite.com@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+tlianza=xrite.com@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Louis Dery Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 6:54 PM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: Color Management for iPad? / Corporate colors? Color management for pictures on iPad... OK, but what about corporate colors on iPad? here´s the link of a demo about "color management for corporate colors on iPad: http://www.couleur911.com/ipad_color_management_4_en.html I don't know what digital magazine and book publishers for iPad are doing to solve this issue? Maybe they don't do anything and simply convert everything to sRGB? What do you think? Louis Dery www.couleur911.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/tlianza%40xrite.com This email sent to tlianza@xrite.com The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying attachments may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email or any attachments.
participants (7)
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Karsten Krüger
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Louis Dery
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Rene Damkot
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René Damkot
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Rick Gordon
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Roger Breton
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Thomas Lianza