Hi Andrew, From what I can gather HDR monitors have both darker blacks and increased brightness to extend their dynamic range (Color is another matter, but in general more light allows for greater saturation in some colors I would imagine.) My question is whether or not this becomes problematic if one is making prints. The only way to get more dynamic range out of a given print (using given inks and a given paper) so far as I know is to throw more light on it. Does that become an issue? Monitors generally already have a greater dynamic range than prints do. I realize that for many making prints may have become yet another “alternative process,” but I’m still mostly interested in them as a final output. Thanks Allen Furbeck
On Mar 21, 2024, at 3:00 PM, colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com wrote:
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 10:03:57 -0600 From: Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net <mailto:andrew@digitaldog.net>> To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com <http://lists.apple.com/>' List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Monitor/display suggestions? Message-ID: <87F4C99D-4D16-44CB-BBE1-5296EFA97C3D@digitaldog.net <mailto:87F4C99D-4D16-44CB-BBE1-5296EFA97C3D@digitaldog.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
If clients have more issues with wider gamut displays, the issue is a misunderstanding of basic color management. Yes, viewing wide-gamut imagery outside a color-managed workflow that expects sRGB isn?t going to work well. Use color management! There were a few years when many browsers, especially outside the macOS ecosystem, were not color-managed. As for printing, a big issue with small and wider gamut displays is the vast difference in shape and size between the gamut of a display and a print: Simple matrix profiles of RGB working spaces based on displays when plotted 3 dimensionally illustrate that they reach their maximum saturation at high luminance levels. The opposite is seen with print (output) color spaces. Printers produce color by adding ink or some colorant while working space profiles are based on building more saturation by adding more light due to the differences in subtractive and additive color models. No display I know of gets close to approaching the color gamut of a modern inkjet printer, so there?s always a bit of a disconnect here. One should be able to soft proof and see more of the print output color space with a wide gamut display compared to an sRGB gamut display and that?s useful.
What is developing more in display systems than print is HDR. The new(er) HDR editing options in Lightroom Classic or Adobe Camera Raw as two examples that use an HDR display and data for editing is an interesting development if not somewhat limited to others with HDR displays that are calibrated and profiled and used in a color managed workflow.
Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
The “problem" is that the dynamic range of the display hugely exceeds the DR of a print. What printer exceeds even a 350-400:1 ratio? Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Mar 21, 2024, at 2:33 PM, A Furbeck via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
Hi Andrew,
From what I can gather HDR monitors have both darker blacks and increased brightness to extend their dynamic range (Color is another matter, but in general more light allows for greater saturation in some colors I would imagine.) My question is whether or not this becomes problematic if one is making prints. The only way to get more dynamic range out of a given print (using given inks and a given paper) so far as I know is to throw more light on it. Does that become an issue? Monitors generally already have a greater dynamic range than prints do.
I realize that for many making prints may have become yet another “alternative process,” but I’m still mostly interested in them as a final output.
Thanks Allen Furbeck
The contrast ratio of my PA is said to be 1500:1. The max contrast ratio I can even hope for in print is maybe, maybe 400:1. So, to get the closest screen to print match, I have the option to use the ICC profile to simulate paper white and ink black when soft proofing. These two check box options in some software products are also known as the “make my image look like crap” buttons <g> because reality can suck. You’re viewing your image at 1500:1 or thereabouts, you reduce the ratio to the output, and before your eyes, as this new preview takes place, it looks pretty awful in comparison. There is a simple trick to make this more effective (don’t watch the redraw), but the point here is that with a non-HDR display, the contrast ratio is enormous compared to the output on a print. A much worse disconnect with an HDR image and HDR display compared to the soft proof for a print. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Mar 21, 2024, at 2:33 PM, A Furbeck via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
I realize that for many making prints may have become yet another “alternative process,” but I’m still mostly interested in them as a final output.
Thanks Allen Furbeck
participants (2)
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A Furbeck
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Andrew Rodney