Effects of lens implants on color vision (Was RE: Human color vision)
Some personal observations on lens implant effects on color vision: Photochromic eyeglass lenses absorb ultraviolet and deep violet. Before I developed cataracts, they appeared to have a slight amber tint, especially noticeable in natural outdoor light, but also by placing them on a piece of white paper under artificial light. They would change the saturation and hue of blue skies. As my cataracts and lens browning developed, I lost the ability to see the amber tint, as everything was subject to an even stronger yellowish filter. After each eye received an implant (six years apart) it was possible to see the amber tint again in that eye. There is a choice of clear implants or UV absorbing implants. UV implants could be identified on the info card they gave you, as the type number had "UV" appended. I made sure to get UV absorbing, as I suspected they would most closely match my vision prior to browning of my natural lenses. This was confirmed in a striking way by a colleague of mine who accidentally got a clear implant in one eye and a UV absorbing one in the other. He had a beige winter coat of a cotton/synthetic blend, with pure synthetic knit collar. Viewing through the clear implant, especially in natural daylight, he reported that the collar looked purple, while it matched the main material much more closely through the UV implant. I verified his observation of only a slight mismatch with my UV-absorbing implants. I also noticed something about white point adaptation during the time I had only one implant. Even after a long time of adaptation in a given environment, closing one eye and then the other showed a definite yellow shift in the untreated eye compared to the one with an implant. I did not expect this, thinking that each eye would adapt to the same overall balance. Despite the difference, the sense of what objects in the field of vision were white was equally strong in both eyes. I take this to be an indication that the process of identifying white is separate from the process of seeing a white object as a particular color. (This yellow shift is gone now that I have implants in both eyes.) -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+waynebretl=cox.net@lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of David Scharf via colorsync-users Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 6:54 PM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Cc: David Scharf <electronman@roadrunner.com> Subject: Re: Human color vision You'll finally be able to see violet again!!! DAVID SCHARF PHOTOGRAPHY *DAVID SCHARF * On 1/14/20 9:25 AM, Roger Breton via colorsync-users wrote:
Bob,
Call me nuts, but I'm actually looking forward to the day I'll have a cataract removed for the very reason you mention, that experience of looking at the world, all of a sudden, *without* yellow filters. I read the same account as you described, in the color literature, that the sky takes on a stronger vivid shade of blue and so on.
All I know about the Standard Observer is that it was made of two groups of men but I have no details on their age... I guess they had "normal color vision" 😊
/ Roger
-----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Bob-BTY via colorsync-users Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 10:42 AM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Human color vision
Many people don't seem to know that the lenses in the human eye start going yellow with age. By the age of 50 most people are looking at the world through yellow filters! I experienced this when having a lens replaced because of cataract. The new plastic lens was clear, and when I came out of the operating room, I could see that the dresses of the nurses (that were grey/white stripes before) were now blue/white when I looked at them with the new lens. With the yellow lens in my other eye they were still grey/white! A blue sky was now qite vivid with the new plastic lens, not so with the old yellow lens. I played about with Wratten filters to see how yellow my original lens was, but sadly I can't find the details any more, and nnow have two clear plastic lenses. I wonder how old the 'Standard Observer' was?
Bob Frost
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca
This email sent to graxx@videotron.ca
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/david%40scharfphoto....
This email sent to david@scharfphoto.com
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/waynebretl%40cox.net This email sent to waynebretl@cox.net
Wayne Bretl via colorsync-users wrote:
Before I developed cataracts, they appeared to have a slight amber tint, especially noticeable in natural outdoor light, but also by placing them on a piece of white paper under artificial light.
If the paper was cheap, then this effect may be mostly the lens blocking the UV that triggers the paper Fluorescent Whitening Agent. Graeme Gill.
I just did a little test with brightened and un-brightened paper. Frist, I checked that the glasses do indeed mostly block a UV led flashlight, and start to darken. Then I checked the tint on both papers under fluorescent light with the undarkened lens, and the tint was nearly equally visible to me. -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+waynebretl=cox.net@lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Graeme Gill via colorsync-users Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 11:54 PM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Cc: Graeme Gill <graeme2@argyllcms.com> Subject: Re: Effects of lens implants on color vision (Was RE: Human color vision) Wayne Bretl via colorsync-users wrote:
Before I developed cataracts, they appeared to have a slight amber tint, especially noticeable in natural outdoor light, but also by placing them on a piece of white paper under artificial light.
If the paper was cheap, then this effect may be mostly the lens blocking the UV that triggers the paper Fluorescent Whitening Agent. Graeme Gill. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/waynebretl%40cox.net This email sent to waynebretl@cox.net
Hi Wayne, This is the expected behavior. The UV-blocking glasses typically suppress wavelengths below 400 nm. The OBAs in the paper typically emit blue light at 430 nm in response to the UV component of the light at 330 nm. While the glasses block 330 nm, they let the 430 nm and the rest thru. Best, Refik Telhan Light and Color Management consultancy On 15.01.2020 18:35, "colorsync-users on behalf of Wayne Bretl via colorsync-users" <colorsync-users-bounces+rtelhan=icloud.com@lists.apple.com on behalf of colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote: I just did a little test with brightened and un-brightened paper. Frist, I checked that the glasses do indeed mostly block a UV led flashlight, and start to darken. Then I checked the tint on both papers under fluorescent light with the undarkened lens, and the tint was nearly equally visible to me. -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+waynebretl=cox.net@lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Graeme Gill via colorsync-users Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 11:54 PM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Cc: Graeme Gill <graeme2@argyllcms.com> Subject: Re: Effects of lens implants on color vision (Was RE: Human color vision) Wayne Bretl via colorsync-users wrote: > Before I developed cataracts, they appeared to have a slight amber > tint, especially noticeable in natural outdoor light, but also by > placing them on a piece of white paper under artificial light. If the paper was cheap, then this effect may be mostly the lens blocking the UV that triggers the paper Fluorescent Whitening Agent. Graeme Gill. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/waynebretl%40cox.net This email sent to waynebretl@cox.net _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/rtelhan%40icloud.com This email sent to rtelhan@icloud.com
On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 18:23 Wayne Bretl via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
I also noticed something about white point adaptation during the time I had only one implant. Even after a long time of adaptation in a given environment, closing one eye and then the other showed a definite yellow shift in the untreated eye compared to the one with an implant. I did not expect this, thinking that each eye would adapt to the same overall balance.
You mean you felt the one eye showed yellow compared to white, as opposed to the other showing blue? It's said that the roots of the term gamut are in 15th century music with the term referring to lowest G in a complete scale. (Quick digression into idea of a musical scale as a range of distinct and countable notes) Do you think that there's such a trait as musical "perfect pitch" but for color?
[replies in brackets below] -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+waynebretl=cox.net@lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 12:07 PM To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Effects of lens implants on color vision (Was RE: Human color vision) On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 18:23 Wayne Bretl via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
I also noticed something about white point adaptation during the time I had only one implant. Even after a long time of adaptation in a given environment, closing one eye and then the other showed a definite yellow shift in the untreated eye compared to the one with an implant. I did not expect this, thinking that each eye would adapt to the same overall balance.
You mean you felt the one eye showed yellow compared to white, as opposed to the other showing blue? [The yellower one looked definitely yellower than neutral. The bluer one looked closer to neutral, if I recall correctly. - WB] It's said that the roots of the term gamut are in 15th century music with the term referring to lowest G in a complete scale. (Quick digression into idea of a musical scale as a range of distinct and countable notes) Do you think that there's such a trait as musical "perfect pitch" but for color? [Interesting thought. First, not sure what the analogous definition would be (ability to name the wavelength of a pure stimulus?) and second, I think there probably is no such ability. - WB] _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/waynebretl%40cox.net This email sent to waynebretl@cox.net
Re UV coatings, I think that's distinct from anti-reflective coatings, a cheaper form of which produce the very striking blue reflection that some people find fashionable. Re cataracts, I've often heard of a link between UV exposure and cataracts. But like everything I found it's more complex... I developed a condition where as the eyeball changes shape due to elongation from muscle strain of strong distance correction for near field viewing (eg computer displays) the jelly in the eye separates from the retina and creates a horrible crippling form of floaters. For aging suffers of diabetic retinopathy (my late father) there's a treatment of replacing the vitreous jelly with saline and this can cure the problem as a nice side effect of the treatment. But it's been found that vitreous jelly has a critical effect inhibiting cataracts, and that you are guaranteed to require lens replacement within 5 years after a vitrectomy. The Doc said there is some science that suggests that its oxygen impermeability of the jelly, or rather it's permeability, that's crucial to the onset of the disease. Wonders...
Here's my "organ recital," all about my visual organs: In my youth, my acuity was considerably better than 20/20. I could recognize a very tiny astigmatism in my right eye when looking at the horizontal and vertical slats on air vents across the gymnasium. Run-of-the-mill vision tests didn't go to that extreme. I was an example of the joke where the doc says "Read the last line" and the answer is "Printed by local union 71." Both of my eyes are 20/20 now, but my left eye got there through a long chain of events. Years before cataract surgery, I got a small foreign body in my left eye. My primary physician found it, but didn't tumble to the fact that it had promoted iritis. The irritation got worse and worse over a period of a few days, and in the resulting visit to an ophthalmologist I was prescribed some extra-strength drops (a type of cortisone? I don't recall) with the unfortunate side effect of promoting a cataract. My (years) later ophthalmologist was very conservative about doing cataract surgery before it was absolutely necessary, and I think she waited too long. I had repeatedly asked for it, but she talked me out of it until I told her I couldn't pursue my electronics hobby because my depth perception was too poor to solder wires (getting the wires, solder, and iron to meet at the same distance.) During surgery (2009), the natural lens broke out of the capsule and chunks went into the vitreous. This required implanting a lens in front of the iris (which is kept at the ready for cases like this), and a vitrectomy within a week. During the vitrectomy, they also laser welded my retina in place as a precaution. I can sometimes see the weld points as very briefly visible points of light when suddenly turning on the lights in a dark room. After the vitrectomy healed (on the order of a month or more, instead of the few days for a successful cataract surgery), I also got a laser iridotomy to prevent pressure buildup in the eye due to possible blockage by the anterior implant. If you look closely at my left eye, you can see the implant in front of the iris. I have noticed a reduced speed of adaption to extreme light level changes in this eye (being "dazzled" for a minute when going into the sunlight, and longer adaptation time to the dark), but no other deficit. The right eye surgery was done in an earlier stage of cataract progression, by a different doctor who was not so hesitant, and went perfectly. Picking the right diopter implant is difficult, both because of errors in measurement with the cataract in place and because the shape of the eye changes after surgery. I asked for distant vision in both eyes, since I was used to progressive bifocals anyway, but ended up with best focus at computer monitor viewing distance. It is not so far off that I am required to have glasses to drive. After successful surgery, I was able to return to my role as "golden eyeball" for video quality and coding artifact assessment in my work. -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+waynebretl=cox.net@lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:34 PM To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Effects of lens implants on color vision (Was RE: Human color vision) Re UV coatings, I think that's distinct from anti-reflective coatings, a cheaper form of which produce the very striking blue reflection that some people find fashionable. Re cataracts, I've often heard of a link between UV exposure and cataracts. But like everything I found it's more complex... I developed a condition where as the eyeball changes shape due to elongation from muscle strain of strong distance correction for near field viewing (eg computer displays) the jelly in the eye separates from the retina and creates a horrible crippling form of floaters. For aging suffers of diabetic retinopathy (my late father) there's a treatment of replacing the vitreous jelly with saline and this can cure the problem as a nice side effect of the treatment. But it's been found that vitreous jelly has a critical effect inhibiting cataracts, and that you are guaranteed to require lens replacement within 5 years after a vitrectomy. The Doc said there is some science that suggests that its oxygen impermeability of the jelly, or rather it's permeability, that's crucial to the onset of the disease. Wonders... _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/waynebretl%40cox.net This email sent to waynebretl@cox.net
participants (5)
-
Graeme Gill
-
Henry Davis
-
Refik Telhan
-
Wayne Bretl
-
Wire ~