i1 Profiler problem with ColorShop
Dear all, client of mine used to make gray profiles deriving them via ColorShop from RGB profiles (which was created in Color Elite SW with X-rite Pulse before). Now, after upgrade to i1 and i1 Profiler (v1.2.0), this functionality is gone. During conversion, ColorShop create two files, one of them is ICC profile, but still producing color output, no gray. It is no matter if we generate v2 or v4 ICC profile in i1 Profiler. I am pretty sure, that we must find another solution (goodbye old gold times), but just curious - any idea what changes, where is the catch? Is there another ColorShop user which can repeat our process and confirm that this is not just our problem? Original RGB profile generated on i1 Profiler on Windows, ColorShop is running on Mac. Any input will be very appreciated, Thanks, all the best Kamil Tresnak
The functionality you describe is indeed gone but If you're just wanting to make grayscale profiles, I have an article on my site about using ColorPort for measuring grayscale targets which can then be used with a free QTR script to generate the profiles. http://www.on-sight.com/2012/02/22/using-colorport-for-qtr-grayscale-and-alt... What is the end goal or purpose you're trying to achieve? Color managed grayscale printing? On which printer? Scott Martin www.on-sight.com On Mar 26, 2012, at 3:30 AM, Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> wrote:
Dear all,
client of mine used to make gray profiles deriving them via ColorShop from RGB profiles (which was created in Color Elite SW with X-rite Pulse before). Now, after upgrade to i1 and i1 Profiler (v1.2.0), this functionality is gone. During conversion, ColorShop create two files, one of them is ICC profile, but still producing color output, no gray. It is no matter if we generate v2 or v4 ICC profile in i1 Profiler.
I am pretty sure, that we must find another solution (goodbye old gold times), but just curious - any idea what changes, where is the catch? Is there another ColorShop user which can repeat our process and confirm that this is not just our problem? Original RGB profile generated on i1 Profiler on Windows, ColorShop is running on Mac.
Any input will be very appreciated,
Thanks, all the best
Kamil Tresnak _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/scott%40on-sight.com
This email sent to scott@on-sight.com
Hi Scott, thank you for reply; thanks for pointing, i know about your article (and QTR) from recent discussions here and seems to be a great solution. Just to specify - this is digital minilab, they produce own RGB profiles and grayscale profiles for demanding customers. Years before, they bought Pulse and was very satisfied with this package. Computing gray profiles (via ColorShop) from RGB profile was great - you make one profile (RGB) and second (grey) you get literally as a "bonus" :) So from now, they will be making both profiles seprately ... you can't stop the progress :-) Thank you, all the best Kamil ______________________________________________________________
Od: "Scott Martin" <scott@on-sight.com> Komu: Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> Datum: 26.03.2012 10:48 Předmět: Re: i1 Profiler problem with ColorShop
CC: "colorsync-users" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> The functionality you describe is indeed gone but If you're just wanting to make grayscale profiles, I have an article on my site about using ColorPort for measuring grayscale targets which can then be used with a free QTR script to generate the profiles.
http://www.on-sight.com/2012/02/22/using-colorport-for-qtr-grayscale-and-alt...
What is the end goal or purpose you're trying to achieve? Color managed grayscale printing? On which printer?
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Mar 26, 2012, at 3:30 AM, Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> wrote:
Dear all,
client of mine used to make gray profiles deriving them via ColorShop from RGB profiles (which was created in Color Elite SW with X-rite Pulse before). Now, after upgrade to i1 and i1 Profiler (v1.2.0), this functionality is gone. During conversion, ColorShop create two files, one of them is ICC profile, but still producing color output, no gray. It is no matter if we generate v2 or v4 ICC profile in i1 Profiler.
I am pretty sure, that we must find another solution (goodbye old gold times), but just curious - any idea what changes, where is the catch? Is there another ColorShop user which can repeat our process and confirm that this is not just our problem? Original RGB profile generated on i1 Profiler on Windows, ColorShop is running on Mac.
Any input will be very appreciated,
Thanks, all the best
Kamil Tresnak _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/scott%40on-sight.com
This email sent to scott@on-sight.com
A mini lab should be able to do all of their color and B&W printing for all their customers from the same profile - it just takes a really good profile :-) There are many tricks - this is a fun area of speciality. Some of the nitty gritty details are discussed here: http://www.on-sight.com/2010/01/11/photolab-silver-halide-color-management/ Which machines are they running? What are they seeing with their color profile that they don't like (presumably when printing b&w images)? Scott Martin (from phone) www.on-sight.com On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:15 PM, "Kamil Tresnak" <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> wrote:
Hi Scott,
thank you for reply; thanks for pointing, i know about your article (and QTR) from recent discussions here and seems to be a great solution. Just to specify - this is digital minilab, they produce own RGB profiles and grayscale profiles for demanding customers. Years before, they bought Pulse and was very satisfied with this package. Computing gray profiles (via ColorShop) from RGB profile was great - you make one profile (RGB) and second (grey) you get literally as a "bonus" :) So from now, they will be making both profiles seprately ... you can't stop the progress :-)
Thank you,
all the best
Kamil
______________________________________________________________
Od: "Scott Martin" <scott@on-sight.com> Komu: Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> Datum: 26.03.2012 10:48 Předmět: Re: i1 Profiler problem with ColorShop
CC: "colorsync-users" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> The functionality you describe is indeed gone but If you're just wanting to make grayscale profiles, I have an article on my site about using ColorPort for measuring grayscale targets which can then be used with a free QTR script to generate the profiles.
http://www.on-sight.com/2012/02/22/using-colorport-for-qtr-grayscale-and-alt...
What is the end goal or purpose you're trying to achieve? Color managed grayscale printing? On which printer?
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Mar 26, 2012, at 3:30 AM, Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> wrote:
Dear all,
client of mine used to make gray profiles deriving them via ColorShop from RGB profiles (which was created in Color Elite SW with X-rite Pulse before). Now, after upgrade to i1 and i1 Profiler (v1.2.0), this functionality is gone. During conversion, ColorShop create two files, one of them is ICC profile, but still producing color output, no gray. It is no matter if we generate v2 or v4 ICC profile in i1 Profiler.
I am pretty sure, that we must find another solution (goodbye old gold times), but just curious - any idea what changes, where is the catch? Is there another ColorShop user which can repeat our process and confirm that this is not just our problem? Original RGB profile generated on i1 Profiler on Windows, ColorShop is running on Mac.
Any input will be very appreciated,
Thanks, all the best
Kamil Tresnak _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/scott%40on-sight.com
This email sent to scott@on-sight.com
I am sorry, i don´t define my first question precisely ... ColorShop profile i mentioned in my question was in fact RGB profile with grayscale output ( don´t know if this kind of profiles have a specific denomination). So we don´t have problems with profiles at all, and you are right with B&W images printing from good RGB profile. But ColorShop profiles allow us print B&W directly from RGB source - they produce great RGB composite B&W prints without the need for making grayscale images, which is far not as simple, as press "convert to gray" button, as you definitely know better than me ... BTW, from this point of view, QTR is not exactly what we miss here, although this is really great solution. Just one note, i am really impressed by your deep knowledge about minilabs technology. Minilab mentioned in my question is Noritsu :) ... (but i have to say, seems to me, maybe Noritsu technical staff in our country (Czech) is not at the same level as you know from your experiences - this is just personal note). As i say, we don´t have problems with profiles - maybe we are just "lucky", and maybe we have just "good enough" results, as i don´t have any other samples to compare. Feedback from photographers is OK, but this is really subjective view ... Thank you, Kamil ______________________________________________________________
Od: "Scott Martin" <scott@on-sight.com> Komu: Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> Datum: 26.03.2012 23:30 Předmět: Re: i1 Profiler problem with ColorShop
CC: "colorsync-users" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> A mini lab should be able to do all of their color and B&W printing for all their customers from the same profile - it just takes a really good profile :-) There are many tricks - this is a fun area of speciality. Some of the nitty gritty details are discussed here:
http://www.on-sight.com/2010/01/11/photolab-silver-halide-color-management/
Which machines are they running?
What are they seeing with their color profile that they don't like (presumably when printing b&w images)?
Scott Martin (from phone) www.on-sight.com
On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:15 PM, "Kamil Tresnak" <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> wrote:
Hi Scott,
thank you for reply; thanks for pointing, i know about your article (and QTR) from recent discussions here and seems to be a great solution. Just to specify - this is digital minilab, they produce own RGB profiles and grayscale profiles for demanding customers. Years before, they bought Pulse and was very satisfied with this package. Computing gray profiles (via ColorShop) from RGB profile was great - you make one profile (RGB) and second (grey) you get literally as a "bonus" :) So from now, they will be making both profiles seprately ... you can't stop the progress :-)
Thank you,
all the best
Kamil
______________________________________________________________
Od: "Scott Martin" <scott@on-sight.com> Komu: Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> Datum: 26.03.2012 10:48 Předmět: Re: i1 Profiler problem with ColorShop
CC: "colorsync-users" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> The functionality you describe is indeed gone but If you're just wanting to make grayscale profiles, I have an article on my site about using ColorPort for measuring grayscale targets which can then be used with a free QTR script to generate the profiles.
http://www.on-sight.com/2012/02/22/using-colorport-for-qtr-grayscale-and-alt...
What is the end goal or purpose you're trying to achieve? Color managed grayscale printing? On which printer?
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Mar 26, 2012, at 3:30 AM, Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz> wrote:
Dear all,
client of mine used to make gray profiles deriving them via ColorShop from RGB profiles (which was created in Color Elite SW with X-rite Pulse before). Now, after upgrade to i1 and i1 Profiler (v1.2.0), this functionality is gone. During conversion, ColorShop create two files, one of them is ICC profile, but still producing color output, no gray. It is no matter if we generate v2 or v4 ICC profile in i1 Profiler.
I am pretty sure, that we must find another solution (goodbye old gold times), but just curious - any idea what changes, where is the catch? Is there another ColorShop user which can repeat our process and confirm that this is not just our problem? Original RGB profile generated on i1 Profiler on Windows, ColorShop is running on Mac.
Any input will be very appreciated,
Thanks, all the best
Kamil Tresnak _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/scott%40on-sight.com
This email sent to scott@on-sight.com
But ColorShop profiles allow us print B&W directly from RGB source - they produce great RGB composite B&W prints without the need for making grayscale images, which is far not as simple, as press "convert to gray" button,
I see! So you're using a profile to fix what sounds to me like a workflow problem. I think the better long term solution would be to look at your workflow (your front end software that you're using to feed the Noritsu) instead of using a wonky workaround. The right workflow software will let you convert images to grayscale easily and perhaps even tone them slightly. Printing everything with one profile is nice and simple and avoids complication and mistakes. Lock down your color management so you can forget about it and spend your mental energy on the workflow.
Minilab mentioned in my question is Noritsu :)
Good stuff. Would be interesting to know which one and what software you're using/they're using to feed it. Smart minilab workflow is a beautiful thing when it's all setup right. Scott Martin Onsight http://www.on-sight.com
I recall the ColorShop grayscale profile ability, built from the same as the color profile. It was indeed a simple viable solution for a situation like yours. The workflow without it does make for some extra steps, some value judgements, and potential multiple version of files. Over time many of the varied and niche options one could find for color management have dried up or not moved forward. I've not seen a contemporary version of that approach. Tyler
But ColorShop profiles allow us print B&W directly from RGB source - they produce great RGB composite B&W prints without the need for making grayscale images, which is far not as simple, as press "convert to gray" button,
I see! So you're using a profile to fix what sounds to me like a workflow problem. I think the better long term solution would be to look at your workflow (your front end software that you're using to feed the Noritsu) instead of using a wonky workaround. The right workflow software will let you convert images to grayscale easily and perhaps even tone them slightly. Printing everything with one profile is nice and simple and avoids complication and mistakes. Lock down your color management so you can forget about it and spend your mental energy on the workflow.
Minilab mentioned in my question is Noritsu :)
Good stuff. Would be interesting to know which one and what software you're using/they're using to feed it. Smart minilab workflow is a beautiful thing when it's all setup right.
Scott Martin
Onsight http://www.on-sight.com
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/tyler%40tylerboley.c...
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I don't know where you're coming from with a statement like this. We're not talking about printing images one at a time from Photoshop. Minilab workflows applications like Labtricity, ROES, Photogize, EZ Lab, DP2, etc are geared towards printing potentially hundreds of thousands of images a shift. Stopping the whole thing so you can switch profiles just to print a few images in B&W that are in color is a mess. Keep it running, print those as black and white (one click) or as a toned black and white (two clicks) and keep moving. All of this is parametric and never requires file duplication. Profiles are for managing color across devices. Using abstract profiles for the purpose of color correction is a bad idea. There's a reason this functionality hasn't been replaced by something else. Scott Martin Onsight Precise photographic color and workflow training http://www.on-sight.com On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:48 AM, tyler@tylerboley.com wrote:
I recall the ColorShop grayscale profile ability, built from the same as the color profile. It was indeed a simple viable solution for a situation like yours. The workflow without it does make for some extra steps, some value judgements, and potential multiple version of files.
Thanks Scott, i wil be back with detailed info about hw and sw they using in few days. Kamil ______________________________________________________________
Od: "Scott Martin" <scott@on-sight.com> Komu: Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak@centrum.cz>, "colorsync-users" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Datum: 27.03.2012 15:12 Předmět: Re: i1 Profiler problem with ColorShop
But ColorShop profiles allow us print B&W directly from RGB source - they produce great RGB composite B&W prints without the need for making grayscale images, which is far not as simple, as press "convert to gray" button,
I see! So you're using a profile to fix what sounds to me like a workflow problem. I think the better long term solution would be to look at your workflow (your front end software that you're using to feed the Noritsu) instead of using a wonky workaround. The right workflow software will let you convert images to grayscale easily and perhaps even tone them slightly. Printing everything with one profile is nice and simple and avoids complication and mistakes. Lock down your color management so you can forget about it and spend your mental energy on the workflow.
Minilab mentioned in my question is Noritsu :)
Good stuff. Would be interesting to know which one and what software you're using/they're using to feed it. Smart minilab workflow is a beautiful thing when it's all setup right.
Scott Martin
Onsight http://www.on-sight.com
participants (3)
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Kamil Tresnak
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Scott Martin
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tyler＠tylerboley.com