Dear all I made a printer profile using some cheap Inks target printed through Eye one software OSX 10.6.8 Epson R2400 Eye One Pro Eye One Match 3.6.3 i1 RGB 1.5 target Ink: INK Paper Epson Archival Matte The printer results are deeply weird (neutrals are massively cyan, blues are magenta) and looking at the profile in ColorSync Utility it is skewed and from approx 60 through to 100 L it does not even cover the neutral L* axis. I have uploaded a screen grab here http://tinyurl.com/c3f26pq I tested the i1 Pro for repeatability of measurement and against published values of a Colorchecker Target: it had an average error of about 1.5de 1976 - max 3de. I printed out nozzle checks of the INK inks and visually compared them against K3 inks - they are slightly different - magenta and cyan but not massively so. Has anyone got any ideas what to try next? Best Matthew Ward
On Aug 29, 2012, at 7:03 AM, Matthew Ward <matthew@matthewwardphotography.com> wrote:
Dear all I made a printer profile using some cheap Inks target printed through Eye one software OSX 10.6.8 Epson R2400 Eye One Pro Eye One Match 3.6.3 i1 RGB 1.5 target Ink: INK Paper Epson Archival Matte
The printer results are deeply weird (neutrals are massively cyan, blues are magenta) and looking at the profile in ColorSync Utility it is skewed and from approx 60 through to 100 L it does not even cover the neutral L* axis. I have uploaded a screen grab here http://tinyurl.com/c3f26pq
I tested the i1 Pro for repeatability of measurement and against published values of a Colorchecker Target: it had an average error of about 1.5de 1976 - max 3de. I printed out nozzle checks of the INK inks and visually compared them against K3 inks - they are slightly different - magenta and cyan but not massively so.
Has anyone got any ideas what to try next?
How's a gray ramp print on the printer? The image you supplied implies that mid tone / highlight grays are very magenta. If that's true, then it's your printer. Otherwise, I'd look for measurement issues. The repeatability test is OK but still won't tell you if the machine always measures poorly. Make sure you are using the right reference file and measuring all the right patches. A mismatch between reference file and measurement file (or measuring the wrong row of color) can really mess things up Regards, Steve
Hi Matthew, If you select a profile from the "Profile" section within ColorSync Utility's main window, the displayed gamut is typically calculated from the perceptual table in the A2B0 tag. You can't rely on the colorimetric gamut shape using that tag as the profiling software somehow "optimizes" it in a vendor specific way. This often leads to artifacts in the gamut shape, such as a distorted area in the shadows (which can be seen in your screenshot as well). Open the profile (using the open button) for further inspection and chose the A2B1 tag. This tag contains relative colorimetric data and should provide a more natural gamut shape of an output device. But nevertheless, the distortion you can see in your screenshot points to some other problem and is likely to be seen in a similar manner in the A2B1 table. There are several reasons that can cause such problems. The following are only some ideas: - ink was not laid/dry when measured (the driver is optimized for Epson inks, and other inks can behave different) - you measured too fast or maybe held the i1Pro in a way that the aperture was not directed perpendicular over the paper surface - you measured one or more rows of patches twice or in the wrong order by accident - your i1Pros' internal light source gets weak or the device itself is defective (i1Pros should be send in for maintenance/recertification on a regular basis, if frequently used, X-Rite recommends every year) I'd recommend to not use generic L*a*b* values to check your i1Pro against, the deviation to your copy of the chart is probably too high for a qualified answer. You'd better get the free i1 Diagnostics from X-Rite servers and test your device with it. But even if this utility says your device is OK, it can be defective, but eventually didn't show it on the first test. So run it more than once, twice, thrice… Do you have a friend who has an i1Pro or know a studio that does. Maybe he/they can measure the chart for you to have a second guess where the issue comes from. Best Claudio Am 29.08.2012 um 16:03 schrieb Matthew Ward:
Dear all I made a printer profile using some cheap Inks target printed through Eye one software OSX 10.6.8 Epson R2400 Eye One Pro Eye One Match 3.6.3 i1 RGB 1.5 target Ink: INK Paper Epson Archival Matte
The printer results are deeply weird (neutrals are massively cyan, blues are magenta) and looking at the profile in ColorSync Utility it is skewed and from approx 60 through to 100 L it does not even cover the neutral L* axis. I have uploaded a screen grab here http://tinyurl.com/c3f26pq
I tested the i1 Pro for repeatability of measurement and against published values of a Colorchecker Target: it had an average error of about 1.5de 1976 - max 3de. I printed out nozzle checks of the INK inks and visually compared them against K3 inks - they are slightly different - magenta and cyan but not massively so.
Has anyone got any ideas what to try next?
Best Matthew Ward _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/claudio.wilmanns%40m...
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Thanks to Steve, Cladio and Terry who contributed on and off list - very illuminating. With these cheap inks it is possible to put the wrong inks in the wrong slots and if anything that stupid is possible, its likely to be me that discovers it. Basically if you want to waste a lot of time and the time of people on the list willing to help, simply reverse light cyan and light light black then create a profile. There used to be a time where you could blame the fumes coming off the dishes for this sort of moronicity. Best Matthew Ward
Matthew, Yes, this list is a great resource for problem solving, no matter the cause. Sometimes, as you now know, the solutions are unbelievably simple. Glad you're back up and running. Another problem which I'm sure many of us often encounter are clogged heads (nozzles), which also do wacky things to our output. Nearly every printer manufacturer recommends (at least with older models) to periodically clean the print heads, often done via their own built in utility. As you know, this is done by spraying ink through the nozzles to clear them, using and wasting LOTS of very expensive ink. I came across a very simple utility called "Harvey Head Cleaner" (http://www.harveyheadcleaner.com/) that does this automatically in the background while you sleep. It works by printing a very small test pattern which uses a minimal amount of each color. When done regularly, this will guarantee that your nozzles never clog. And again, it uses a very, very small amount of ink, compared to the manufacturers head cleaning utility. When not in use, I keep my printer loaded with inexpensive uncoated paper to be used for this recurring process. And the same paper can be turned over and used again and again. I have no affiliation with this company, nor do I own their stock, but am only recommending it for a solution to a very annoying but easily resolved problem. Best, Bob Rock -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+rock=pchaninc.com@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+rock=pchaninc.com@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Ward Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:10 AM To: colorsync-users Mailing List Subject: Weird printer profile update Thanks to Steve, Cladio and Terry who contributed on and off list - very illuminating. With these cheap inks it is possible to put the wrong inks in the wrong slots and if anything that stupid is possible, its likely to be me that discovers it. Basically if you want to waste a lot of time and the time of people on the list willing to help, simply reverse light cyan and light light black then create a profile. There used to be a time where you could blame the fumes coming off the dishes for this sort of moronicity. Best Matthew Ward _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/rock%40pchaninc.com This email sent to rock@pchaninc.com
For the record, I decided to get an Epson 4900 and, so far so good. I don't print every day to it but it seems that the head's clogging problems in this machine are never as severe as they were on the 4000. I noticed, too, that, whenever I turn it on, it seems to go through some internal routine which, I suspect, includes some kind od head cleaning or nozzle check behind the scenes. Still, my first order of business using this printer, with the ORIS ColorTunerWeb RIP, is to launch a simple nozzle check. So far, so good. That nozzle check pattern is keeping strong and I have not come across my first clogged heads yet. I think I've had the printers for a couple of months now. Best / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Robert Rock Sent: August-30-12 9:19 AM To: 'Matthew Ward'; 'colorsync-users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Weird printer profile update Matthew, Yes, this list is a great resource for problem solving, no matter the cause. Sometimes, as you now know, the solutions are unbelievably simple. Glad you're back up and running. Another problem which I'm sure many of us often encounter are clogged heads (nozzles), which also do wacky things to our output. Nearly every printer manufacturer recommends (at least with older models) to periodically clean the print heads, often done via their own built in utility. As you know, this is done by spraying ink through the nozzles to clear them, using and wasting LOTS of very expensive ink. I came across a very simple utility called "Harvey Head Cleaner" (http://www.harveyheadcleaner.com/) that does this automatically in the background while you sleep. It works by printing a very small test pattern which uses a minimal amount of each color. When done regularly, this will guarantee that your nozzles never clog. And again, it uses a very, very small amount of ink, compared to the manufacturers head cleaning utility. When not in use, I keep my printer loaded with inexpensive uncoated paper to be used for this recurring process. And the same paper can be turned over and used again and again. I have no affiliation with this company, nor do I own their stock, but am only recommending it for a solution to a very annoying but easily resolved problem. Best, Bob Rock
Hopefully we'll never see another printer that clogged like the 4000! Scott Martin www.on-sight.com On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:53 AM, Roger Breton wrote:
it seems that the head's clogging problems in this machine are never as severe as they were on the 4000.
Roger et al, ...and now we know another way to create a 'special effect'. At least, that's what I tell people when I make an 'innovation' like this. Mark On 30/08/2012, at 11:53 PM, Roger Breton <graxx@videotron.ca> wrote:
For the record, I decided to get an Epson 4900 and, so far so good. I don't print every day to it but it seems that the head's clogging problems in this machine are never as severe as they were on the 4000. I noticed, too, that, whenever I turn it on, it seems to go through some internal routine which, I suspect, includes some kind od head cleaning or nozzle check behind the scenes. Still, my first order of business using this printer, with the ORIS ColorTunerWeb RIP, is to launch a simple nozzle check. So far, so good. That nozzle check pattern is keeping strong and I have not come across my first clogged heads yet. I think I've had the printers for a couple of months now.
Best / Roger
-----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Robert Rock Sent: August-30-12 9:19 AM To: 'Matthew Ward'; 'colorsync-users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Weird printer profile update
Matthew, Yes, this list is a great resource for problem solving, no matter the cause. Sometimes, as you now know, the solutions are unbelievably simple. Glad you're back up and running. Another problem which I'm sure many of us often encounter are clogged heads (nozzles), which also do wacky things to our output. Nearly every printer manufacturer recommends (at least with older models) to periodically clean the print heads, often done via their own built in utility. As you know, this is done by spraying ink through the nozzles to clear them, using and wasting LOTS of very expensive ink. I came across a very simple utility called "Harvey Head Cleaner" (http://www.harveyheadcleaner.com/) that does this automatically in the background while you sleep. It works by printing a very small test pattern which uses a minimal amount of each color. When done regularly, this will guarantee that your nozzles never clog. And again, it uses a very, very small amount of ink, compared to the manufacturers head cleaning utility. When not in use, I keep my printer loaded with inexpensive uncoated paper to be used for this recurring process. And the same paper can be turned over and used again and again.
I have no affiliation with this company, nor do I own their stock, but am only recommending it for a solution to a very annoying but easily resolved problem.
Best, Bob Rock
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mark.stegman%40gmail...
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You deserve praise for hanging on to your problem. Many times, I stumble on issues that, intuitively, I can't make sense of. But with stubbornness and time, I always manage to resolve them. And they could seem so simple yet defy our imagination. It's like champagne when we finally discover what the heck we were doing wrong all along. It's like "Eureka"! And then we move on to the real problem at hand, color :-) Best / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Ward Sent: August-30-12 8:10 AM To: colorsync-users Mailing List Subject: Weird printer profile update Thanks to Steve, Cladio and Terry who contributed on and off list - very illuminating. With these cheap inks it is possible to put the wrong inks in the wrong slots and if anything that stupid is possible, its likely to be me that discovers it. Basically if you want to waste a lot of time and the time of people on the list willing to help, simply reverse light cyan and light light black then create a profile. There used to be a time where you could blame the fumes coming off the dishes for this sort of moronicity. Best Matthew Ward
OK, I guess we need decision on who (Steve, Claudio or yours truly) called it correctly and the quickest. I sent Matthew an email yesterday at 6:07pm (EST) stating that it appears there's no light cyan ink printing (Bingo!). I missed the call on the light-light black ink.....but the neutral axis did look like a spiraling strand of DNA or something...very weird. I must say though, I hadn't thought of the simple mistake of switched cartridges.....I was thinking it was a straightforward case of alien abduction of the light cyan ink because, as we all know, certain alien races depend on light cyan as their "life essence" or blood if you will. If you don't believe me, remove your aluminum hats for a moment and think back to the numerous cases of shortages of light cyan ink cartridges over the years. Yes, exactly, you see what I mean. As for you Matthew, glad you figured out the problem....but all the same, be wary of aliens needing a blood transfusion. Just sayin'. Regards, Terry :-) On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:09 AM, Matthew Ward <matthew@matthewwardphotography.com> wrote:
Thanks to Steve, Cladio and Terry who contributed on and off list - very illuminating. With these cheap inks it is possible to put the wrong inks in the wrong slots and if anything that stupid is possible, its likely to be me that discovers it.
Basically if you want to waste a lot of time and the time of people on the list willing to help, simply reverse light cyan and light light black then create a profile. There used to be a time where you could blame the fumes coming off the dishes for this sort of moronicity.
Best Matthew Ward
participants (8)
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Claudio Wilmanns
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Mark Stegman
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Matthew Ward
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Robert Rock
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Roger Breton
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Scott Martin
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Steve Upton
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Terence Wyse