I’m loving Lightroom's ability to display Lab values with a decimal point. For colorimetric Art Repro workflows being able to dial in end points with this precision is fantastic. I’m conversely frustrated with Photoshop's inability to do the same. Rounding values to the nearest integer is unacceptable especially when dealing with delicate paper white differences. I like using Photoshop’s Color Picker as a color calculator to figure out values between different color spaces (measured real world values and the printer color space) but being limited to integers is feeling pretty 90s. The Info Palette now allows 32 bit values and Lab values with several decimal points. That’s helpful but one can’t enter those values into the Color Picker nor create patches with such precision. Any thoughts on this? Any easy to use color calculators like Photoshop’s Color Picker that support custom printer profile and list values (including Lab) to at least one decimal? I know can do this in Colorthink but it’s cumbersome. I thinking a quick, simple and easy color calculator could be an excellent feature for the next version… Scott Martin www.on-sight.com onsite color science insight PS: come on Adobe! Don’t forget us pros!
On Apr 8, 2018, at 5:12 PM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com <mailto:scott@on-sight.com>> wrote:
I’m conversely frustrated with Photoshop's inability to do the same.
Ditto! It's sad the two are not on parity. And yeah, I've asked the Photoshop team to consider it but thus far, it falls on deaf ears. Also cool is Lightroom doesn't truncate to +/- 128! So examine say ProPhoto RGB where we have 0R/G255/B0 in LR vs. Photoshop. LR indicates this isn't a 'legal' value where Photoshop just truncates it. I find that useful. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ <http://www.digitaldog.net/>
So examine say ProPhoto RGB where we have 0R/G255/B0 in LR vs. Photoshop. LR indicates this isn't a 'legal' value where Photoshop just truncates it. I find that useful.
Help me understand this - what do you mean by LR indicates this isn’t a legal value? Are we talking about a color that falls *outside* of ProPhoto 0R/G255/B0? When I create a ProPhoto 0R/G255/B0 file in Photoshop both LR and PS recognize and identify it correctly in RGB and Lab… FYI, for those that may not have done so yet… you can right click on LR’s histogram and choose “Show Lab Color Values” - very useful for Art Repro environments. Scott Martin www.on-sight.com <http://www.on-sight.com/>=
On 9 Apr 2018, at 01:21, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
Help me understand this - what do you mean by LR indicates this isn’t a legal value? Are we talking about a color that falls *outside* of ProPhoto 0R/G255/B0?
When I create a ProPhoto 0R/G255/B0 file in Photoshop both LR and PS recognize and identify it correctly in RGB and Lab…
Surely B255 are where the “imaginary" problems are with ProPhoto? -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
Hello Scott,
So examine say ProPhoto RGB where we have 0R/G255/B0 in LR vs. Photoshop. LR indicates this isn't a 'legal' value where Photoshop just truncates it. I find that useful.
Help me understand this - what do you mean by LR indicates this isn't a legal value? Are we talking about a color that falls *outside* of ProPhoto 0R/G255/B0?
No, we are talking about colors that aren't colors, since they are out of the visible range. Every ProPhoto triplet with 0 for red and green and any amount of blue leads to a L* of 0. So Prophoto blue is a lightless color. Same thing for greens: up from 0/135/0 to 0/255/0 the a* is -128. Values of 136G an above are imaginary colors. For that reason, calculating colors in Prophoto RGB is a nogo in my opinion. MfG Thomas Richard
Thomas Richard wrote: Hi,
Same thing for greens: up from 0/135/0 to 0/255/0 the a* is -128. Values of 136G an above are imaginary colors.
sorry, this isn't true. 128 is an arbitrary limit imposed by particular computer encoding (i.e. 8 bit L*a*b* encoding). There are perfectly real (i.e. within the spectrum locus) colors with a* or b* values outside the -128 to 128 range. Cheers, Graeme Gill.
Thomas Richard wrote:
Hi,
Same thing for greens: up from 0/135/0 to 0/255/0 the a* is -128. Values of 136G an above are imaginary colors.
sorry, this isn't true. 128 is an arbitrary limit imposed by particular computer encoding (i.e. 8 bit L*a*b* encoding). There are perfectly real (i.e. within the spectrum locus) colors with a* or b* values outside the -128 to 128 range.
Yes i know, and I verified that already by eye for real life yellows above b=128. But do you really think, that there are almost as much greens beyond -128 a* than within? MfG Thomas
For that reason, calculating colors in Prophoto RGB is a nogo in my opinion.
What about AdobeRGB then? The a* 0/255/0 is -128 in Photoshop but -129.1 in Lightroom. If Lightroom can do it…. OK, so we’ve two problems in PS relating to this issue: 1) A need for greater precision (decimals) in the Color Picker. 2) Lab ab values are limited to +/-128 which doesn’t provide enough coverage. And Lightroom does both of these things just fine illustrating the need. If LR can do it, seems like the almighty PS should too... But back to my original question - is there an easy to use color calculator like Photoshop’s Color Picker that supports custom printer profiles and lists values (including Lab) to at least one decimal? Scott Martin www.on-sight.com onsite color science insight
On 9 Apr 2018, at 13:13, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
But back to my original question - is there an easy to use color calculator like Photoshop’s Color Picker that supports custom printer profiles and lists values (including Lab) to at least one decimal?
Depends if you find the command line easy to use :) xicclu gives you 6 decimal places. <http://argyllcms.com/doc/xicclu.html> Regards -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
So cool! Unfortunately I don’t need many decimal places - just ease of use and speed in time demanding situations. Scott Martin www.on-sight.com <http://www.on-sight.com/>
On Apr 9, 2018, at 7:27 AM, Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com <mailto:martin@idea-digital.com>> wrote:
Depends if you find the command line easy to use :)
xicclu gives you 6 decimal places.
<http://argyllcms.com/doc/xicclu.html <http://argyllcms.com/doc/xicclu.html>>
Regards
-- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
Set the Photoshop info palette for 16-bit and then Lab readouts, will that work for you? Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Apr 9, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
So cool! Unfortunately I don’t need many decimal places - just ease of use and speed in time demanding situations.
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com <http://www.on-sight.com/>
As I said in the OP: "The Info Palette now allows 32 bit values and Lab values with several decimal points. That’s helpful but one can’t enter those values into the Color Picker nor create patches with such precision." Setting PS’s Info Palette to 32 bits (not 16) is useful for getting decimals but a) they are still limited to +/- 128 and b) we don’t have decimals in the Color Picker and therefore can’t (easily) create patches with such precision. Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Apr 9, 2018, at 9:19 AM, AndrewRodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
Set the Photoshop info palette for 16-bit and then Lab readouts, will that work for you?
Not in my copy of Photoshop (latest version). Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ <http://www.digitaldog.net/>
On Apr 9, 2018, at 8:25 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com <mailto:scott@on-sight.com>> wrote:
As I said in the OP: "The Info Palette now allows 32 bit values and Lab values with several decimal points.
Check again? With the latest public release of PS, 32 bit Lab readout in the Info Palette should be the only version that supports decimals. And still no decimals in the Color Picker where we need them... Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Apr 9, 2018, at 9:27 AM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
Not in my copy of Photoshop (latest version).
Perhaps our ideas of what constitutes decimals differ. Here's a screen capture of what I see in the latest version of Photoshop, set as I suggested. I see no decimals. file:///Users/thedigitaldog/Pictures/sRGB_HotFolder/PS16bitLab.jpg Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Apr 9, 2018, at 8:43 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
Check again? With the latest public release of PS, 32 bit Lab readout in the Info Palette should be the only version that supports decimals.
And still no decimals in the Color Picker where we need them...
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
Screen grab attachments don’t work here. You can email that directly or post it with a URL. Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Apr 9, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
Perhaps our ideas of what constitutes decimals differ. Here's a screen capture of what I see in the latest version of Photoshop, set as I suggested. I see no decimals.
file:///Users/thedigitaldog/Pictures/sRGB_HotFolder/PS16bitLab.jpg <file:///Users/thedigitaldog/Pictures/sRGB_HotFolder/PS16bitLab.jpg>
participants (5)
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Andrew Rodney
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Graeme Gill
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Martin Orpen
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Scott Martin
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Thomas Richard