Re: Soft Proofing with White Border
You can test this empirically: The difference is dramatic. On a somewhat related note, if you are proofing for press, and the paper proof has a paper white simulation added to the background (i.e., printed with absolute colorimetric rendering intent), trim off all margins that are outside the job and show the naked bright white of the unprinted paper. If left on the proof the perception of the proof will be that of darkness and dinginess, as the eye takes its cue from the brightest "white" in the field of view. Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:27:43 -0400 From: Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Soft Proofing with White Border Message-ID: <CAL=8Xqt4AsdpFpFM3V6vDLcMParpRn79C0eP=HGeZH+R8B33dA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It is recommended that when you soft proof an image on screen compared to a print on white paper (or predicting the print on white paper), that you have a minimum 1" white border surrounding the image on screen. Does anyone know of a good link to a (preferably) non-profit web site that explains in plain English why this is necessary? I need to supply a good reference for it and the link I had been using has gone dead.
Thanks! Ken Fleisher
Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I am not trying to test the necessity of a white border on the soft-proof (I already know it's necessary) or to model it (I've read papers on building models to adjust for surround). What I am looking for is a plain-English description of the problem for the lay person, to try and help them understand why it's important. Preferably this description will be on a .org site and have some confidence of longevity for the link! Anyhow, thanks for the comments. At least now some of you may be aware of a practice that you weren't aware of before, even if I can't find a new link. :) Ken On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> wrote:
You can test this empirically: The difference is dramatic.
On a somewhat related note, if you are proofing for press, and the paper proof has a paper white simulation added to the background (i.e., printed with absolute colorimetric rendering intent), trim off all margins that are outside the job and show the naked bright white of the unprinted paper. If left on the proof the perception of the proof will be that of darkness and dinginess, as the eye takes its cue from the brightest "white" in the field of view.
Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:27:43 -0400 From: Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Soft Proofing with White Border Message-ID: <CAL=8Xqt4AsdpFpFM3V6vDLcMParpRn79C0eP=
HGeZH+R8B33dA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It is recommended that when you soft proof an image on screen compared to a print on white paper (or predicting the print on white paper), that you have a minimum 1" white border surrounding the image on screen. Does anyone know of a good link to a (preferably) non-profit web site that explains in plain English why this is necessary? I need to supply a good reference for it and the link I had been using has gone dead.
Thanks! Ken Fleisher
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Ken, I'm not sure if this link helps but in the section labeled "Surround", there's some pertinent info. The main info is: at least 2" surround of neutral gray 10%-60%. http://info.gtilite.com/2011/01/what-is-iso-3664/ But their main reason is to not get a color bias from the area surrounding the image. So it's more of an optical gray reference then as a highlight reference. Either way it's important! And no, I have nothing to do with GTI. HTH - Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fleisher" <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: "ColorSync Users Mailing List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 16:11 Subject: Re: Soft Proofing with White Border
Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I am not trying to test the necessity of a white border on the soft-proof (I already know it's necessary) or to model it (I've read papers on building models to adjust for surround). What I am looking for is a plain-English description of the problem for the lay person, to try and help them understand why it's important. Preferably this description will be on a .org site and have some confidence of longevity for the link!
Anyhow, thanks for the comments. At least now some of you may be aware of a practice that you weren't aware of before, even if I can't find a new link. :)
Ken
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> wrote:
You can test this empirically: The difference is dramatic.
On a somewhat related note, if you are proofing for press, and the paper proof has a paper white simulation added to the background (i.e., printed with absolute colorimetric rendering intent), trim off all margins that are outside the job and show the naked bright white of the unprinted paper. If left on the proof the perception of the proof will be that of darkness and dinginess, as the eye takes its cue from the brightest "white" in the field of view.
Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:27:43 -0400 From: Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Soft Proofing with White Border Message-ID: <CAL=8Xqt4AsdpFpFM3V6vDLcMParpRn79C0eP=
HGeZH+R8B33dA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It is recommended that when you soft proof an image on screen compared to a print on white paper (or predicting the print on white paper), that you have a minimum 1" white border surrounding the image on screen. Does anyone know of a good link to a (preferably) non-profit web site that explains in plain English why this is necessary? I need to supply a good reference for it and the link I had been using has gone dead.
Thanks! Ken Fleisher
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I haven't follow the post but here is a reference after a search (surround in softproof), but not an explanation, on *ISO 3664:2000* * * *http://www.colourstandards.com.au/monitor_display.html * 2013/9/4 Steve Jenkins <sj9000@comcast.net>
Ken, I'm not sure if this link helps but in the section labeled "Surround", there's some pertinent info. The main info is: at least 2" surround of neutral gray 10%-60%.
http://info.gtilite.com/2011/01/what-is-iso-3664/
But their main reason is to not get a color bias from the area surrounding the image. So it's more of an optical gray reference then as a highlight reference. Either way it's important!
And no, I have nothing to do with GTI.
HTH - Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fleisher" <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: "ColorSync Users Mailing List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 16:11 Subject: Re: Soft Proofing with White Border
Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I am not trying to test the necessity of a white border on the soft-proof (I already know it's necessary) or to model it (I've read papers on building models to adjust for surround). What I am looking for is a plain-English description of the problem for the lay person, to try and help them understand why it's important. Preferably this description will be on a .org site and have some confidence of longevity for the link!
Anyhow, thanks for the comments. At least now some of you may be aware of a practice that you weren't aware of before, even if I can't find a new link. :)
Ken
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> wrote:
You can test this empirically: The difference is dramatic.
On a somewhat related note, if you are proofing for press, and the paper proof has a paper white simulation added to the background (i.e., printed with absolute colorimetric rendering intent), trim off all margins that are outside the job and show the naked bright white of the unprinted paper. If left on the proof the perception of the proof will be that of darkness and dinginess, as the eye takes its cue from the brightest "white" in the field of view.
Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:27:43 -0400 From: Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Soft Proofing with White Border Message-ID: <CAL=8Xqt4AsdpFpFM3V6vDLcMParpRn79C0eP=
HGeZH+R8B33dA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It is recommended that when you soft proof an image on screen compared to a print on white paper (or predicting the print on white paper), that you have a minimum 1" white border surrounding the image on screen. Does anyone know of a good link to a (preferably) non-profit web site that explains in plain English why this is necessary? I need to supply a good reference for it and the link I had been using has gone dead.
Thanks! Ken Fleisher
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Hi all, maybe it is too obvious bit a white border works to provide a stable stimulus for adaptation (constant level of retina troland). Hence the changes of image content lead to additional sources for changes in the state of adaptation (hence changes in the perception). You need to check for that in cinema applications where there is no white border ... (if you know color timer in the motion picture industry they can tell you). sincerely Andy On Sep 5, 2013, at 12:51 AM, José Ángel Bueno García wrote:
I haven't follow the post but here is a reference after a search (surround in softproof), but not an explanation, on *ISO 3664:2000* * * *http://www.colourstandards.com.au/monitor_display.html *
2013/9/4 Steve Jenkins <sj9000@comcast.net>
Ken, I'm not sure if this link helps but in the section labeled "Surround", there's some pertinent info. The main info is: at least 2" surround of neutral gray 10%-60%.
http://info.gtilite.com/2011/01/what-is-iso-3664/
But their main reason is to not get a color bias from the area surrounding the image. So it's more of an optical gray reference then as a highlight reference. Either way it's important!
And no, I have nothing to do with GTI.
HTH - Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fleisher" <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: "ColorSync Users Mailing List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 16:11 Subject: Re: Soft Proofing with White Border
Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I am not trying to test the necessity of a white border on the soft-proof (I already know it's necessary) or to model it (I've read papers on building models to adjust for surround). What I am looking for is a plain-English description of the problem for the lay person, to try and help them understand why it's important. Preferably this description will be on a .org site and have some confidence of longevity for the link!
Anyhow, thanks for the comments. At least now some of you may be aware of a practice that you weren't aware of before, even if I can't find a new link. :)
Ken
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> wrote:
You can test this empirically: The difference is dramatic.
On a somewhat related note, if you are proofing for press, and the paper proof has a paper white simulation added to the background (i.e., printed with absolute colorimetric rendering intent), trim off all margins that are outside the job and show the naked bright white of the unprinted paper. If left on the proof the perception of the proof will be that of darkness and dinginess, as the eye takes its cue from the brightest "white" in the field of view.
Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:27:43 -0400 From: Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Soft Proofing with White Border Message-ID: <CAL=8Xqt4AsdpFpFM3V6vDLcMParpRn79C0eP=
HGeZH+R8B33dA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It is recommended that when you soft proof an image on screen compared to a print on white paper (or predicting the print on white paper), that you have a minimum 1" white border surrounding the image on screen. Does anyone know of a good link to a (preferably) non-profit web site that explains in plain English why this is necessary? I need to supply a good reference for it and the link I had been using has gone dead.
Thanks! Ken Fleisher
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Ken, Unfortunately (or fortunately!) there is no lengthy explanation accompanying what you will find by following the link below. These flash animations have been available in MIT's website for several years and are quite good at demonstrating, or illustrating (?) how susceptible our perception is to the influence of our viewing environment. You might even call them 'entertaining'. Then again, I don't get out a lot. http://web.mit.edu/persci/gaz/gaz-teaching/index.html ENJOY P.S. ken, I am posting again as i did not Reply All. On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Steve Jenkins <sj9000@comcast.net> wrote:
Ken, I'm not sure if this link helps but in the section labeled "Surround", there's some pertinent info. The main info is: at least 2" surround of neutral gray 10%-60%.
http://info.gtilite.com/2011/01/what-is-iso-3664/
But their main reason is to not get a color bias from the area surrounding the image. So it's more of an optical gray reference then as a highlight reference. Either way it's important!
And no, I have nothing to do with GTI.
HTH - Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fleisher" <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: "ColorSync Users Mailing List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 16:11 Subject: Re: Soft Proofing with White Border
Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I am not trying to test the necessity of a white border on the soft-proof (I already know it's necessary) or to model it (I've read papers on building models to adjust for surround). What I am looking for is a plain-English description of the problem for the lay person, to try and help them understand why it's important. Preferably this description will be on a .org site and have some confidence of longevity for the link!
Anyhow, thanks for the comments. At least now some of you may be aware of a practice that you weren't aware of before, even if I can't find a new link. :)
Ken
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> wrote:
You can test this empirically: The difference is dramatic.
On a somewhat related note, if you are proofing for press, and the paper proof has a paper white simulation added to the background (i.e., printed with absolute colorimetric rendering intent), trim off all margins that are outside the job and show the naked bright white of the unprinted paper. If left on the proof the perception of the proof will be that of darkness and dinginess, as the eye takes its cue from the brightest "white" in the field of view.
Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:27:43 -0400 From: Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Soft Proofing with White Border Message-ID: <CAL=8Xqt4AsdpFpFM3V6vDLcMParpRn79C0eP=
HGeZH+R8B33dA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It is recommended that when you soft proof an image on screen compared to a print on white paper (or predicting the print on white paper), that you have a minimum 1" white border surrounding the image on screen. Does anyone know of a good link to a (preferably) non-profit web site that explains in plain English why this is necessary? I need to supply a good reference for it and the link I had been using has gone dead.
Thanks! Ken Fleisher
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participants (6)
-
Andreas Kraushaar
-
José Ángel Bueno García
-
Ken Fleisher
-
Mark Stegman
-
Mike Strickler
-
Steve Jenkins