Anybody having problems with their ageing i1Pro2 devices? I’ve got two here that can no longer be used for certifying proofs because they can no longer read the 100 C patch correctly :( The first is a 2012 purchase that has done 5292 strip reads and the lamp lit for 17,771 seconds. The second a 2014 purchase that has done 2070 strip reads and the lamp lit for 5,868 seconds. Another 2014 purchase that has only done 230 strip reads will pass the proofs. So will a 2011 i1 Pro that has done 9,994 strip reads and 31,981 seconds of lamp use! All pass the i1 Diagnostics tests. The proofers are calibrated using an ILS30 but when we are running at high output we can’t afford to waste time pausing and auto reading each proof — so have to switch to the i1s. It looks to me that the older the i1Pro2 gets the worse it gets at measuring 100% cyan — there are no problems with any other patches. Comparing the good and bad devices in ArgyllColorMeter shows that the spectral curve for cyan is an identical shape but offset slightly. Annoying that it only takes 15 months of relatively light use before the these devices become pre-press bricks :( -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
Have you contacted X-Rite about this problem, and if so, what was the service experience like? Mark From: Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com> To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 8:11 AM Subject: i1Pro2 Problems Anybody having problems with their ageing i1Pro2 devices? I’ve got two here that can no longer be used for certifying proofs because they can no longer read the 100 C patch correctly :( The first is a 2012 purchase that has done 5292 strip reads and the lamp lit for 17,771 seconds. The second a 2014 purchase that has done 2070 strip reads and the lamp lit for 5,868 seconds. Another 2014 purchase that has only done 230 strip reads will pass the proofs. So will a 2011 i1 Pro that has done 9,994 strip reads and 31,981 seconds of lamp use! All pass the i1 Diagnostics tests. The proofers are calibrated using an ILS30 but when we are running at high output we can’t afford to waste time pausing and auto reading each proof — so have to switch to the i1s. It looks to me that the older the i1Pro2 gets the worse it gets at measuring 100% cyan — there are no problems with any other patches. Comparing the good and bad devices in ArgyllColorMeter shows that the spectral curve for cyan is an identical shape but offset slightly. Annoying that it only takes 15 months of relatively light use before the these devices become pre-press bricks :( -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mgsegal%40rogers.com This email sent to mgsegal@rogers.com
On 20 Aug 2015, at 13:58, MARK SEGAL <mgsegal@rogers.com> wrote:
Have you contacted X-Rite about this problem, and if so, what was the service experience like?
Mark In the UK we can’t speak to X-Rite about any i1 product, we have to go through the reseller. Luckily for us one of our resellers is GMG — and it’s GMG’s ProofControl that we need to use the i1s with — so they are dealing with X-Rite on our behalf. Tech support have been notified, all the diagnostic data sent to them and we are waiting to hear back. Wish the i1 Pros came with a proper test chart like the old DTP41… if the light source or sensor drifts in one band it must be hard to recognise when all you have is a white tile? And if we calibrated and then measured with the same device it’d also be difficult to spot this issue too. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
We use a product from Basiccolor that has 8 color patches. Very easy to use to check that your calibrator doesn’t shift or to compare different calibrators to see that they agree. Stefan Ohlsson 20 aug 2015 kl. 15:17 skrev Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com>:
On 20 Aug 2015, at 13:58, MARK SEGAL <mgsegal@rogers.com> wrote:
Have you contacted X-Rite about this problem, and if so, what was the service experience like?
Mark
In the UK we can’t speak to X-Rite about any i1 product, we have to go through the reseller.
Luckily for us one of our resellers is GMG — and it’s GMG’s ProofControl that we need to use the i1s with — so they are dealing with X-Rite on our behalf.
Tech support have been notified, all the diagnostic data sent to them and we are waiting to hear back.
Wish the i1 Pros came with a proper test chart like the old DTP41… if the light source or sensor drifts in one band it must be hard to recognise when all you have is a white tile?
And if we calibrated and then measured with the same device it’d also be difficult to spot this issue too.
Projektor Utbildning AB Telefonvägen 30 126 26 Hägersten www.profiler.nu “Everything should be as simple as it can be, but not simpler." Albert Einstein
please also consult other means to check your measurement device http://www.fogra.org/en/fogra-publications/webinars-archive/web-driftanalysi... <http://www.fogra.org/en/fogra-publications/webinars-archive/web-driftanalysis/drift-analysis-webinar.html> regards Andy
On 20 Aug 2015, at 16:39, Stefan Ohlsson <stefan@profiler.nu> wrote:
We use a product from Basiccolor that has 8 color patches. Very easy to use to check that your calibrator doesn’t shift or to compare different calibrators to see that they agree.
Stefan Ohlsson
20 aug 2015 kl. 15:17 skrev Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com <mailto:martin@idea-digital.com>>:
On 20 Aug 2015, at 13:58, MARK SEGAL <mgsegal@rogers.com> wrote:
Have you contacted X-Rite about this problem, and if so, what was the service experience like?
Mark
In the UK we can’t speak to X-Rite about any i1 product, we have to go through the reseller.
Luckily for us one of our resellers is GMG — and it’s GMG’s ProofControl that we need to use the i1s with — so they are dealing with X-Rite on our behalf.
Tech support have been notified, all the diagnostic data sent to them and we are waiting to hear back.
Wish the i1 Pros came with a proper test chart like the old DTP41… if the light source or sensor drifts in one band it must be hard to recognise when all you have is a white tile?
And if we calibrated and then measured with the same device it’d also be difficult to spot this issue too.
Projektor Utbildning AB Telefonvägen 30 126 26 Hägersten www.profiler.nu <http://www.profiler.nu/>
“Everything should be as simple as it can be, but not simpler."
Albert Einstein
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Hi, It is not common, that every i1Pro 2 device becomes inaccurate after a certain time of usage. To ensure best performance however it is recommended to recertify them in an interval of 12 months, especially when using them for color-critical measurements in proofing environments. It is always a good idea to perform an i1Diagnostics test, but be sure to use the latest version 4.1.1. This version can trigger an extended calibration of the device if a drift in the white reflectance measurement is detected. If you believe a device turns out to deliver questionable measurements, even if it passes an i1Diagnostics test, please contact our support directly for additional help. Kind regards, Liane Liane May Application Specialist X-Rite Europe GmbH -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+lmay=xrite.com@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+lmay=xrite.com@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Martin Orpen Sent: 20 Aug 2015 15:18 To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List Subject: Re: i1Pro2 Problems On 20 Aug 2015, at 13:58, MARK SEGAL <mgsegal@rogers.com> wrote:
Have you contacted X-Rite about this problem, and if so, what was the service experience like?
Mark In the UK we can’t speak to X-Rite about any i1 product, we have to go through the reseller. Luckily for us one of our resellers is GMG — and it’s GMG’s ProofControl that we need to use the i1s with — so they are dealing with X-Rite on our behalf. Tech support have been notified, all the diagnostic data sent to them and we are waiting to hear back. Wish the i1 Pros came with a proper test chart like the old DTP41… if the light source or sensor drifts in one band it must be hard to recognise when all you have is a white tile? And if we calibrated and then measured with the same device it’d also be difficult to spot this issue too. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/lmay%40xrite.com This email sent to lmay@xrite.com
On Aug 20, 2015, at 7:55 AM, Liane May <LMay@xrite.com> wrote:
It is always a good idea to perform an i1Diagnostics test, but be sure to use the latest version 4.1.1. This version can trigger an extended calibration of the device if a drift in the white reflectance measurement is detected. If you believe a device turns out to deliver questionable measurements, even if it passes an i1Diagnostics test, please contact our support directly for additional help.
I agree, it sounds like recertification will likely fix things up for you (cumbersome as it might be in the UK). Also, I’m curious if you’ve tried calibrating using a different (known good) instrument’s white patch as an experiment to see if it makes a difference. I also hesitate to mention, as you have very likely checked, but for others on the list, carefully inspecting the filter / lens of the instrument and removing paper dust can make a huge difference. The i1 Pro gen 1 instruments were particularly good at filling the little filter cavity with paper dust. Finally, we also offer an inexpensive service with Maxwell (good for the life of the instrument) to periodically verify instruments using any color reference you like. You can trend the device and get email notifications for failures, etc. It doesn’t require the use of Maxwell for other things. regards, Steve
On 20 Aug 2015, at 21:03, Steve Upton <upton@chromix.com> wrote:
Also, I’m curious if you’ve tried calibrating using a different (known good) instrument’s white patch as an experiment to see if it makes a difference.
Didn’t try that, will give it a go tomorrow.
I also hesitate to mention, as you have very likely checked, but for others on the list, carefully inspecting the filter / lens of the instrument and removing paper dust can make a huge difference. The i1 Pro gen 1 instruments were particularly good at filling the little filter cavity with paper dust.
Haha, they are both clean and regularly checked. Visited a client a few years ago who was complaining that his i1 Pro wouldn’t calibrate his screen. I opened it up to find the glass was covered in cracks! That’s the odd thing about both instruments — they have performed flawlessly in a critical proofing environment and only shown problems in the last month. Because the last 3 months have included a transition to the Spectroproofer ILS20 to ILS30, it looked as if this was related to software issues we’ve been having. So odd that it is only the 100% cyan patch too — every other patch in the media wedge reads perfectly.
Finally, we also offer an inexpensive service with Maxwell (good for the life of the instrument) to periodically verify instruments using any color reference you like. You can trend the device and get email notifications for failures, etc. It doesn’t require the use of Maxwell for other things.
Interesting. Never given this much thought — but now I’ve been bitten I think it’d be a good idea to periodically measure known references and compare the results. Cheers -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
From: Martin Orpen
Finally, we also offer an inexpensive service with Maxwell (good for the life of the instrument) to periodically verify instruments using any color reference you like. You can trend the device and get email notifications for failures, etc. It doesn’t require the use of Maxwell for other things.
Interesting. Never given this much thought — but now I’ve been bitten I think it’d be a good idea to periodically measure known references and compare the results.
Martin, We regularly characterize all our instruments (albeit not an i1 amongst them) against standard references. You can use traceable standards such as Munsell tiles, but this is probably overkill for your needs. Start with a few representative color samples that will remain repeatable and not drift overly much with humidity or temperature. A sample swatch set from solid surface countertop manufacturers or non-glossy ceramic tiles work perfectly well. Characterize each tile with all instruments on a regular basis. You are not interested in the absolute numbers but only in their relationship to each other. This allows finding instruments with outlier behavior as well as tracking color shifts over time. We track both calculated LAB values as well as spectral data for wavelengths are high enough to be out of the noise range. Excel works perfectly well for this task and lets you graph trends over time. Were we starting from scratch, I'd probably take Steve up on his trending service. Best, Ethan Hansen Dry Creek Photo
On 20 Aug 2015, at 15:55, Liane May <lmay@xrite.com> wrote:
It is always a good idea to perform an i1Diagnostics test, but be sure to use the latest version 4.1.1. This version can trigger an extended calibration of the device if a drift in the white reflectance measurement is detected. If you believe a device turns out to deliver questionable measurements, even if it passes an i1Diagnostics test, please contact our support directly for additional help.
Liane We used the latest version of the diagnostics tool and sent the data to X-Rite UK. I’ve booked the older instrument in for a recertification so that we can see if that fixes this issue. I’m surprised that both of these instruments have become unusable… in exactly the same way — especially as the newer one was only purchased in April last year. If it’s any consolation, we did blame GMG first as the transition from M0 to M1 isn’t going particularly well from a production perspective… failing on cyan just looked so much like another software issue :) -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
MARK SEGAL wrote:
Comparing the good and bad devices in ArgyllColorMeter shows that the spectral curve for cyan is an identical shape but offset slightly.
Hmm. Since the i1pro2 has a wavelength reference LED in it for calibration, that suggests that maybe the LED itself has shifted. It would be fascinating to know if that was the case. Perhaps one way of getting a hint would be to check using ArgyllCMS spotread with and without the ARGYLL_DISABLE_I1PRO2_DRIVER environment variable set. (When treated in backward compatible fashion, the wavelength calibration is not performed.) [I'm assuming that you are seeing the same measurement values using X-Rite's software and Argyll ? ] Graeme Gill.
I did not write this. Mark From: Graeme Gill <graeme2@argyllcms.com> To: ColorSync <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 8:33 PM Subject: Re: i1Pro2 Problems MARK SEGAL wrote:
Comparing the good and bad devices in ArgyllColorMeter shows that the spectral curve for cyan is an identical shape but offset slightly.
Hmm. Since the i1pro2 has a wavelength reference LED in it for calibration, that suggests that maybe the LED itself has shifted. It would be fascinating to know if that was the case. Perhaps one way of getting a hint would be to check using ArgyllCMS spotread with and without the ARGYLL_DISABLE_I1PRO2_DRIVER environment variable set. (When treated in backward compatible fashion, the wavelength calibration is not performed.) [I'm assuming that you are seeing the same measurement values using X-Rite's software and Argyll ? ] Graeme Gill. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mgsegal%40rogers.com This email sent to mgsegal@rogers.com
On 21 Aug 2015, at 01:33, Graeme Gill <graeme2@argyllcms.com> wrote:
Hmm. Since the i1pro2 has a wavelength reference LED in it for calibration, that suggests that maybe the LED itself has shifted. It would be fascinating to know if that was the case. Perhaps one way of getting a hint would be to check using ArgyllCMS spotread with and without the ARGYLL_DISABLE_I1PRO2_DRIVER environment variable set. (When treated in backward compatible fashion, the wavelength calibration is not performed.)
Got the i1Pro2 back from Germany today — but it isn’t the one we sent to them, so it looks like the whole unit was replaced with a newer one. No explanation as to why, just a certificate of calibration in the box. I did try testing the old unit before sending it off but no matter how I tried to set the environment variable spotread launch and work as normal. Have you tested this technique on a Mac Graeme? If you have, I’d like to know how you did it? Regards -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
participants (8)
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Andreas Kraushaar
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Ethan Hansen
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Graeme Gill
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Liane May
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MARK SEGAL
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Martin Orpen
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Stefan Ohlsson
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Steve Upton