i1Profiler scanner module is very picky about file formats
When I try to load a Reference File, I keep getting the "Error reading from reference file" message? I have some hand-measured IT8.7 Reflective targets I would like to create scanner profiles from but no matter which one of the supported Target Type I select, i1Profiler stubbornly refuses my measurement file. I tried this on both the Mac and Windows version of the software to no avail. Any ideas anyone? I'm about to throw the towel. Best / Roger Breton
On 11 Feb 2015, at 00:07, Roger Breton <graxx@videotron.ca> wrote:
I have some hand-measured IT8.7 Reflective targets I would like to create scanner profiles from but no matter which one of the supported Target Type I select, i1Profiler stubbornly refuses my measurement file.
I tried this on both the Mac and Windows version of the software to no avail.
Any ideas anyone?
Roger I thought that i1Profiler could only handle a small number of built-in target formats? If you want to use your own custom targets you have to go back to using ProfileMaker — which will handle anything you choose to throw at it :-) Regards -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
From: Martin Orpen
I thought that i1Profiler could only handle a small number of built-in target formats?
If you want to use your own custom targets you have to go back to using ProfileMaker — which will handle anything you choose to throw at it :-)
i1Profiler can use custom measured reference files for anything *except* the ColorChecker flavors. You need to save the reference data in the same format as i1Profiler expects for that target type. My preference is to use a HutchColor_HCT_Reflective layout. I've successfully made scanner profiles with i1Profiler on various media ranging from canvas to titanium sheets. Cheers, Ethan
On 11 Feb 2015, at 00:39, Ethan Hansen <ehansen@drycreekphoto.com> wrote:
i1Profiler can use custom measured reference files for anything *except* the ColorChecker flavors. You need to save the reference data in the same format as i1Profiler expects for that target type. My preference is to use a HutchColor_HCT_Reflective layout. I've successfully made scanner profiles with i1Profiler on various media ranging from canvas to titanium sheets.
Interesting… My reflective scanner targets are 900 to 1200 patch targets which are constructed to read on the DTP70. They work perfectly in ProfileMaker. Will these work in i1Profiler? I didn’t think they would — but would love it if they did :-) Will give them a try tomorrow. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
Let us know. D David B. Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. dba Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center Bellingham, WA www.spinnakerphotoimagingcenter.com 360 739 2826
On Feb 10, 2015, at 4:49 PM, Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2015, at 00:39, Ethan Hansen <ehansen@drycreekphoto.com> wrote:
i1Profiler can use custom measured reference files for anything *except* the ColorChecker flavors. You need to save the reference data in the same format as i1Profiler expects for that target type. My preference is to use a HutchColor_HCT_Reflective layout. I've successfully made scanner profiles with i1Profiler on various media ranging from canvas to titanium sheets.
Interesting…
My reflective scanner targets are 900 to 1200 patch targets which are constructed to read on the DTP70.
They work perfectly in ProfileMaker.
Will these work in i1Profiler?
I didn’t think they would — but would love it if they did :-)
Will give them a try tomorrow.
-- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/spinnakerphotoimagin...
This email sent to spinnakerphotoimagingcenter@dnmillerphoto.com
Ethan,
You need to save the reference data in the same format as i1Profiler expects for that target type.
Which is FAR from obvious in my last frustrating attempts. I spent the last two days trying to "reverse-engineer" this part of i1Profiler. Do you use a special text editor of some kind? I tried with both the "LaserSoft" and "WolfFaust" target types to no avail. I1Profiler allows loading the scanned TIFFs just fine *but* it keeps complaining about the "format" of my custom measurements at the point of loading Reference Files. / Roger
From: Roger Breton
You need to save the reference data in the same format as i1Profiler expects for that target type.
Which is FAR from obvious in my last frustrating attempts. I spent the last two days trying to "reverse-engineer" this part of i1Profiler.
Do you use a special text editor of some kind?
I tried with both the "LaserSoft" and "WolfFaust" target types to no avail. I1Profiler allows loading the scanned TIFFs just fine *but* it keeps complaining about the "format" of my custom measurements at the point of loading Reference Files.
Roger, I dug through backups and pulled the measurement data from that particular job. Looking at the measurements, they were made with MeasureTool. The spectral data were then read into Excel, converted to XYZ and CIELAB, and written out to a tab delimited file. Header and footer information were then copied from an already existing i1Profiler reference file. That jogged my memory. We also tried using a Kodak IT8 (custom measured rather than the batch averaged Q60 file). For reasons only known to X-Rite, i1Profiler refused to accept tab delimited reference data. The provided Q60 reference files were all space delimited and that's what i1Profiler needed. The provided HutchColor reference files were tab delimited, so I'm assuming you need to match the existing format. Looking at the LaserSoft reflective files, they are all space-delimited. Whether you need to include the appropriate number of spaces for each column, I can't say. That's easy enough to do in Excel. WolfFaust reference files are also space-delimited. In addition to XYZ and CIELAB, you will also need to calculate CIELCH. Setting all the standard deviation and mean DE fields to 0.00 should be fine. Best of luck! -Ethan
On Feb 10, 2015, at 6:20 PM, Roger Breton <graxx@videotron.ca> wrote:
Ethan,
You need to save the reference data in the same format as i1Profiler expects for that target type.
Which is FAR from obvious in my last frustrating attempts. I spent the last two days trying to "reverse-engineer" this part of i1Profiler.
And no guarantee i1P with all it's glorious bugs and warts will work even after that headache. Case in point: I recently saved out a custom patch set as CxF in the most resent build of i1P. Then tried to open it in the Optimization module. Software popped an error. The damn software can't read a file IT created! I opened the same file in PatchTool (no issue). Resaved as CxF. Now i1P can read the file. Whoever is in charge of software engineering for this product should be pretty embarrassed. They should thank Danny for producing PatchTool to overcome all the issues this software has just with file formats. Ugh! Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
Andrew, You have my vote :-) Ethan commented on the business of "space-delimited" measurements earlier, which I also observed. Seems, as he described, that i1Profiler doesn't support "tab-delimited" format at all? As I experimented with modifying my reference file to "comply" with the capricious of i1Profiler, I could not find the heart of duplicating each and every possible sequences of spaces for each of the 288 entries. I just could not :-( I tried seach and replaced with fixed sequences of spaces but even that didn't work. At the very least, X-Rite ought to make available some kind app note like BabelColor does, on its web site, for those of us who would like to recoup some the functionality of ProfileMakerPro when making scanner profiles.... Thank's for PatchTool, btw. Really, we shouldn't have to work that hard to create scanner profiles from custom measurements. As you commented, whoever coded this has left out a few important points here and there... IMO, X-Rite ought to go back to the drawing table and give us a little more flexibility in input formats, and fix the ability to open back their own file formats :( I know, Graeme, I would be long done with Argyll... Best regards / Roger Incidently, I participated in i1Profiler Beta program but was never given a working upgrade for my ProfileMakerPro dongle :( -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Rodney Sent: 11 février 2015 10:44 To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List Subject: Re: i1Profiler scanner module is very picky about file formats
On Feb 10, 2015, at 6:20 PM, Roger Breton <graxx@videotron.ca> wrote:
Ethan,
You need to save the reference data in the same format as i1Profiler expects for that target type.
Which is FAR from obvious in my last frustrating attempts. I spent the last two days trying to "reverse-engineer" this part of i1Profiler.
And no guarantee i1P with all it's glorious bugs and warts will work even after that headache. Case in point: I recently saved out a custom patch set as CxF in the most resent build of i1P. Then tried to open it in the Optimization module. Software popped an error. The damn software can't read a file IT created! I opened the same file in PatchTool (no issue). Resaved as CxF. Now i1P can read the file. Whoever is in charge of software engineering for this product should be pretty embarrassed. They should thank Danny for producing PatchTool to overcome all the issues this software has just with file formats. Ugh! Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx@videotron.ca
For the record... I1Profiler accepted my tab-delimited measurement file -- I did *not* have to make it space-delimited. In the character shuffling between PatchTool and my original MeasureTool text file, the reasons I was successful was : a) I chose a "LaserSoft" target type (288 patches total) in step A; b) I kept my reference file data to ID, XYZ and Lab (see C:\ProgramData\X-Rite\i1Profiler\ScannerReferenceFiles\LaserSoft_Reflective); c) I made sure the first line of my reference file read "IT8.7/2" d) And that the second line of my reference file read ORIGINATOR "LaserSoft Imaging AG" Best / Roger Breton
This is for X-Rite... Sorry for posting here :( But I'm in i1Profiler 1.5.6 demo on Windows 8.1 and I am having one hell of a time to get a Kodak Transparent 4.5 TIFF 300dpi image to get the fiducial marks on? I tried many things to no avail. The last time I had difficulty with this error, increasing the canvas size in Photoshop did the trick. But, after trying twice to increase the canvas size, i1Profiler crashed on me with : OpenCV GUI Error Handler Insufficient memory (Out of memory) In function cvAlloc, C:\Users\NYadav\Downloads\Openvc-1.0\cxcore\src\cxalloc.cpp(111) I guess, the only thing left to try is to press the Abort button :( / Roger Breton
From: Roger Breton
This is for X-Rite... Sorry for posting here :( But I'm in i1Profiler 1.5.6 demo on Windows 8.1 and I am having one hell of a time to get a Kodak Transparent 4.5 TIFF 300dpi image to get the fiducial marks on? I tried many things to no avail. The last time I had difficulty with this error, increasing the canvas size in Photoshop did the trick. But, after trying twice to increase the canvas size, i1Profiler crashed on me with :
OpenCV GUI Error Handler Insufficient memory (Out of memory) In function cvAlloc, C:\Users\NYadav\Downloads\Openvc-1.0\cxcore\src\cxalloc.cpp(111)
I guess, the only thing left to try is to press the Abort button :(
Well, that's an error I've seen before. Not in i1Profiler but in some of our old code that used OpenCV. The problem often is not that the application actually ran out of memory, but that memory was corrupted and overwritten. Memory leaks are all too prevalent in i1Profiler. Do too many tasks in a row and it's crash time. Had you run anything else in i1Profiler before trying to load your large canvas image? If not, try it from a clean start. ---------------------- Notes to X-Rite: - OpenCV happily consumes gobs of memory. A pointer to an image object *must* be released before it is reassigned or reused. For example, when you allocate IplImage *pImg, make sure to call cvReleaseImage(&pImg). - Even with careful programming, the C interface to OpenCV is prone to memory leaks. Using the C++ interface and thereby replacing IplImage with cv:Mat makes your life considerably easier. - That said, track memory usage before allocating space for new images. Also, minimize the number of images and vectors to images stored at once. - Finally, if resampling is being performed, we found a quirk with cvResize. Using bicubic interpolation (CV_INTER_CUBIC) led to minor memory leaks while other interpolation algorithms did not. We killed the project shortly thereafter, so I can't point a finger at bicubic interpolation with any certainty. In any event, if scanner images are being resized, Nearest Neighbor (CV_INTER_NN) should be used to preserve color accuracy.
Ethan, Not to be picky again but, on Windows, at least, isn't that one of the core value of using a development framework like .NET, so that programmers don't have to worry about memory allocations? Best / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Ethan Hansen Sent: 11 février 2015 23:54 To: ''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List' Subject: RE: i1Profiler scanner module is very picky about file formats From: Roger Breton
This is for X-Rite... Sorry for posting here :( But I'm in i1Profiler 1.5.6 demo on Windows 8.1 and I am having one hell of a time to get a Kodak Transparent 4.5 TIFF 300dpi image to get the fiducial marks on? I tried many things to no avail. The last time I had difficulty with this error, increasing the canvas size in Photoshop did the trick. But, after trying twice to increase the canvas size, i1Profiler crashed on me with :
OpenCV GUI Error Handler Insufficient memory (Out of memory) In function cvAlloc, C:\Users\NYadav\Downloads\Openvc-1.0\cxcore\src\cxalloc.cpp(111)
I guess, the only thing left to try is to press the Abort button :(
Well, that's an error I've seen before. Not in i1Profiler but in some of our old code that used OpenCV. The problem often is not that the application actually ran out of memory, but that memory was corrupted and overwritten. Memory leaks are all too prevalent in i1Profiler. Do too many tasks in a row and it's crash time. Had you run anything else in i1Profiler before trying to load your large canvas image? If not, try it from a clean start. ---------------------- Notes to X-Rite: - OpenCV happily consumes gobs of memory. A pointer to an image object *must* be released before it is reassigned or reused. For example, when you allocate IplImage *pImg, make sure to call cvReleaseImage(&pImg). - Even with careful programming, the C interface to OpenCV is prone to memory leaks. Using the C++ interface and thereby replacing IplImage with cv:Mat makes your life considerably easier. - That said, track memory usage before allocating space for new images. Also, minimize the number of images and vectors to images stored at once. - Finally, if resampling is being performed, we found a quirk with cvResize. Using bicubic interpolation (CV_INTER_CUBIC) led to minor memory leaks while other interpolation algorithms did not. We killed the project shortly thereafter, so I can't point a finger at bicubic interpolation with any certainty. In any event, if scanner images are being resized, Nearest Neighbor (CV_INTER_NN) should be used to preserve color accuracy. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx@videotron.ca
From: Roger
Ethan,
Not to be picky again but, on Windows, at least, isn't that one of the core value of using a development framework like .NET, so that programmers don't have to worry about memory allocations?
Best / Roger
Roger, That applies as long as one is coding entirely in C#. Use a library written in C/C++ such as OpenCV and memory management becomes the programmer's responsibility again. I poked into the Windows i1Profiler code out of curiosity as to what is going on. Neither the main i1Profiler executable nor PrismDigitalCamera.dll - the library containing image cropping and recognition routines - appear to use .NET. They do not link against mscorlib.dll. Many components were, however, compiled with Visual Studio 2008. If you ever wondered why i1Profiler does not make optimal use of newer processors, that's part of the answer. Cheers, Ethan
On Feb 12, 2015, at 9:56 AM, Ethan Hansen <ehansen@drycreekphoto.com> wrote:
If you ever wondered why i1Profiler does not make optimal use of newer processors, that's part of the answer.
What I find so frustrating is the 'little stuff' that X-rite engineering should be getting right just to use the product is so poorly supported while the really hard stuff, the color engine is so good and offers so much functionality. I was recently playing around with target generation and there is a lot of improvement here over MeasureTool. Same with post Optimization. I saw smoothness improvements in their Perceptual table with some custom patches. Great stuff. Yet save out a native file and not have the software open it is shocking. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
From: Andrew Rodney
On Feb 12, 2015, at 9:56 AM, Ethan Hansen <ehansen@drycreekphoto.com> wrote:
If you ever wondered why i1Profiler does not make optimal use of newer processors, that's part of the answer.
What I find so frustrating is the 'little stuff' that X-rite engineering should be getting right just to use the product is so poorly supported while the really hard stuff, the color engine is so good and offers so much functionality. I was recently playing around with target generation and there is a lot of improvement here over MeasureTool. Same with post Optimization. I saw smoothness improvements in their Perceptual table with some custom patches. Great stuff.
Yet save out a native file and not have the software open it is shocking.
The hard stuff is fun from an engineering-geek perspective. The little stuff is a major PITA.
Martin, As usual, I hate to take "no" for an answer when it comes to color management. You are 100% right that ProfilerMakerPro creates excellent scanner profiles from my custom measurements files. As for the "small number of built-in target formats", you are right too. For the record, I don't use anything fancy. I tried both the "LaserSoft" and the WolfFaust formats which adequately describe the 288 patches of my IT8 targets. Again, nothing fancy. Same format, same everything. For the money X-Rite charges for i1Profiler, I think one should be able to supply XYZ / Lab custom measurements :( Kind regards / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Martin Orpen Sent: 10 février 2015 19:17 To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List Subject: Re: i1Profiler scanner module is very picky about file formats On 11 Feb 2015, at 00:07, Roger Breton <graxx@videotron.ca> wrote:
I have some hand-measured IT8.7 Reflective targets I would like to create scanner profiles from but no matter which one of the supported Target Type I select, i1Profiler stubbornly refuses my measurement file.
I tried this on both the Mac and Windows version of the software to no avail.
Any ideas anyone?
Roger I thought that i1Profiler could only handle a small number of built-in target formats? If you want to use your own custom targets you have to go back to using ProfileMaker — which will handle anything you choose to throw at it :-) Regards -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx@videotron.ca
Can't believe it. I think I am getting it, with a little help from PatchTool... Will keep you posted... / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Martin Orpen Sent: 10 février 2015 19:17 To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List Subject: Re: i1Profiler scanner module is very picky about file formats On 11 Feb 2015, at 00:07, Roger Breton <graxx@videotron.ca> wrote:
I have some hand-measured IT8.7 Reflective targets I would like to create scanner profiles from but no matter which one of the supported Target Type I select, i1Profiler stubbornly refuses my measurement file.
I tried this on both the Mac and Windows version of the software to no avail.
Any ideas anyone?
Roger I thought that i1Profiler could only handle a small number of built-in target formats? If you want to use your own custom targets you have to go back to using ProfileMaker — which will handle anything you choose to throw at it :-) Regards -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx@videotron.ca
participants (6)
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Andrew Rodney
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Ethan Hansen
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Graeme Gill
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Martin Orpen
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Roger Breton
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Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center