just testing, this list seems deceased?
As we will be too in some time :) Strange how the traffic dwindled away. On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 9:37 AM Neil Barstow via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
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Nobody here but us crickets… Sent from just another hopeless little screen.
On Nov 3, 2021, at 5:03 AM, edmund ronald via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
As we will be too in some time :) Strange how the traffic dwindled away.
On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 9:37 AM Neil Barstow via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
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Hello to all remaining ColorSyncers! Having been an avid fan of the often passionate and flaming debates that this list brings, I thought I’d say hi and goodbye before it’s demise. I’ve never had the need to post a comment before, as most topics have been above my pay grade, however, I have enjoyed the wealth of advice and experiences that the many and varied users have taken the time to share and debate. Thank you all for your dedication and passion. It would be a great shame for this professional forum to concede defeat and succumb to the belief that just because the majority of end users do not care about nuanced (living) colour, in their fast paced click, swipe, click “maconsumerist” lives, that the minority need not still strive for visual technical brilliance. Perhaps the users of this list are having a longer lockdown break, to reassess real world colour management needs, in a post covid / pre artificial intelligence world, where devices pre-empt the needs of the end user, as silicon and software become increasingly speedier and more sophisticated. The esoteric knowledge of ColorSyncers, has by it’s nature been an irrelevance for the majority of end users, it would be a shame for this list to become an irrelevance to it’s target audience due to the belief that their combined expertise is no longer required... perhaps the demise of this list reflects the demise for legacy 20th century colour management technologies in the 21st century? In light of the popularity of screen based media content and it’s nanosecond shelf life, it appears that the overall visual effect rather than colour accuracy, is the order of the day... except for those with a more discerning eye or the luxury of time for some professional navel gazing. For those that are still thinking in colour, this message is supposedly typed in black ink on a white background, which is quite possibly neither absolutely black or white, but perhaps a duotone of light and dark grey (gray), either way, it will still convey some from of meaning to someone(?!). For those of you familiar with Monty Python... https://www.bing.com/videos/search?view=detail&mid=925CB32F81FBD16F82F0925CB... parrot sketch&shtp=GetUrl&shid=f957dd83-9f94-4001-be23-094eac355099&shtk=VGhlIFBhcnJvdCBTa2V0Y2ggLSBNb250eSBQeXRob24ncyBGbHlpbmcgQ2lyY3Vz&shdk=TW9udHkgUHl0aG9u4oCZcyBGbHlpbmcgQ2lyY3Vz4oCdLCBhIEJCQyBjb21lZHkgc2VyaWVzIHN0YXJyaW5nIEdyYWhhbSBDaGFwbWFuLCBKb2huIENsZWVzZSwgRXJpYyBJZGxlLCBUZXJyeSBKb25lcyBhbmQgTWljaGFlbCBQYWxpbiB3aXRoIGFuaW1hdGlvbiBieSBUZXJyeSBHaWxsaWFtLCBtYWRlIGl0cyBkZWJ1dCBvbiBCQkMxIG9uIE9jdG9iZXIgNSwgMTk2OS4gVGhlcmUgd2VyZSA0IHNlcmllcyBpbiB0b3RhbCBhbmQgdGhlIHByb2dyYW1tZXPigJkgbm93LWljb25pYyBza2V0Y2hlcyBpbmNsdWRlZDog4oCcQmljeWNsZSBSZXBhaXJtYW7igJ0sIOKAnE51ZGdlIE51ZGdl4oCdLCDigJxQYXJyb3QgLi4u&shhk=q%2FNIALI6RNqWcVef24mFm2wAmAkzIoJPHUY6qTF036g%3D&form=VDSHOT&shth=OVP.QA9xg2kgv-Uh8gEAUlqNhwIIEk A customer enters a pet shop. Customer (Cleese): 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint. (The owner does not respond.) C: 'Ello, Miss? Owner (Palin): What do you mean "miss"? C: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint! O: We're closin' for lunch. C: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique. O: Oh yes, the, uh, the Norwegian Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it? C: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it! O: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting. C: Look, my lad, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now. O: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage! C: The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead. O: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting! C: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up! Hopefully this list will be more Flaming Phoenix than Norwegian Blue! Take care all... like I said at the start... hi & goodbye! Thanks Ralph (Ex ColourSyncer / Macmonkey) From: Jonathan Taylor via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 9:30:24 AM To: edmund ronald <edmundronald@gmail.com> Cc: Colorsync-users(list) <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: just testing, this list seems deceased? Nobody here but us crickets… Sent from just another hopeless little screen.
On Nov 3, 2021, at 5:03 AM, edmund ronald via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
As we will be too in some time :) Strange how the traffic dwindled away.
On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 9:37 AM Neil Barstow via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
just testing, this list seems deceased? _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
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On Wed Nov 03 2021 09:03:02, edmund ronald via colorsync-users arranged some pixels to say…
Strange how the traffic dwindled away.
I think everyone’s still here (hello to all, and Neil for poking the stick in :-) !)… perhaps colour management issues are less of a ’thing’ than they used to be? I’m still using the tools and workflows I have been for some time, but make a lot less work for print these days (90% of commissioned work is screen-use only, apart from personal work) and people seem generally happy viewing content on high-contrast, over-saturated screens. It’s a bit like the whole social media thing - we’re (collectively, I mean, not here, of course) losing (or have already lost) the ability to appreciate nuance and subtlety across a range of experiences. kind regards Nick __ dUNMUR | member of the Association of Photographers http://www.nickdunmur.com <http://www.nickdunmur.com/> http://www.the-aop.org <http://www.the-aop.org/>
when i was involved with the ICC, they seemed focused on their historical origins of print endproduct and screen as preview. I think the action in color management may have moved to the various moving picture technical committees, the cinema guys are very serious about using calibrated screens for grading and ensuring viewers get the best experience in theaters, and there's a whole community of "home theater" people who calibrate their super large TVs and projectors with high end spetroradiometers. Edmund On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 10:39 AM Nick Dunmur via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
On Wed Nov 03 2021 09:03:02, edmund ronald via colorsync-users arranged some pixels to say…
Strange how the traffic dwindled away.
I think everyone’s still here (hello to all, and Neil for poking the stick in :-) !)… perhaps colour management issues are less of a ’thing’ than they used to be? I’m still using the tools and workflows I have been for some time, but make a lot less work for print these days (90% of commissioned work is screen-use only, apart from personal work) and people seem generally happy viewing content on high-contrast, over-saturated screens. It’s a bit like the whole social media thing - we’re (collectively, I mean, not here, of course) losing (or have already lost) the ability to appreciate nuance and subtlety across a range of experiences.
kind regards
Nick __
dUNMUR | member of the Association of Photographers
http://www.nickdunmur.com <http://www.nickdunmur.com/> http://www.the-aop.org <http://www.the-aop.org/> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
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Hi Edmund, The printing industry is very much alive and growing in all of its analog and digital forms. However some issues related with color managing the printing process have become controversial. Discussing them in their full width requires us to leave our comfort zones. Not many are ready to do so. Calibrating high contrast wide gamut HDR displays and projectors is another big can of worms. The narrowband primary displays and projectors of the day cause a high level of “observer metamerism” to such a degree that no two observers standing side by side see the color in the same way. Especially whites and grays range between greenish and pinkish. Refik Telhan Light and Color Management Consultant -----Original Message----- From: edmund ronald via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Reply-To: edmund ronald <edmundronald@gmail.com> Date: 3 November 2021 Wednesday 13:14 To: Nick Dunmur <info@nickdunmur.com> Cc: Colorsync List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: just testing, this list seems deceased? when i was involved with the ICC, they seemed focused on their historical origins of print endproduct and screen as preview. I think the action in color management may have moved to the various moving picture technical committees, the cinema guys are very serious about using calibrated screens for grading and ensuring viewers get the best experience in theaters, and there's a whole community of "home theater" people who calibrate their super large TVs and projectors with high end spetroradiometers. Edmund On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 10:39 AM Nick Dunmur via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote: > On Wed Nov 03 2021 09:03:02, edmund ronald via colorsync-users arranged > some pixels to say… > > > Strange how the traffic dwindled away. > > > I think everyone’s still here (hello to all, and Neil for poking the stick > in :-) !)… perhaps colour management issues are less of a ’thing’ than they > used to be? I’m still using the tools and workflows I have been for some > time, but make a lot less work for print these days (90% of commissioned > work is screen-use only, apart from personal work) and people seem > generally happy viewing content on high-contrast, over-saturated screens. > It’s a bit like the whole social media thing - we’re (collectively, I mean, > not here, of course) losing (or have already lost) the ability to > appreciate nuance and subtlety across a range of experiences. > > kind regards > > Nick > __ > > dUNMUR | member of the Association of Photographers > > http://www.nickdunmur.com <http://www.nickdunmur.com/> > http://www.the-aop.org <http://www.the-aop.org/> > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/edmundronald%40gmail... > > This email sent to edmundronald@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/rtelhan%40icloud.com This email sent to rtelhan@icloud.com
How many remember the halcyon days of big color guy parties, such as the Gretag NDA intro of the i1 in Orlando? It would be interesting to find how many of that gang stayed in the biz through Covid. Conjecture and chatter are that we are down to perhaps 10%. There are fewer evolving technologies and ink sets than in the 1997-2007 decade. That equates to fewer novel gigs. Because new guys probably don’t have drum scanner experience, color breaks may not be in their tool box. Several manufacturers have commented on those observations. Jon Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 3, 2021, at 6:35 AM, Refik Telhan via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
Hi Edmund,
The printing industry is very much alive and growing in all of its analog and digital forms. However some issues related with color managing the printing process have become controversial. Discussing them in their full width requires us to leave our comfort zones. Not many are ready to do so.
Calibrating high contrast wide gamut HDR displays and projectors is another big can of worms. The narrowband primary displays and projectors of the day cause a high level of “observer metamerism” to such a degree that no two observers standing side by side see the color in the same way. Especially whites and grays range between greenish and pinkish.
Refik Telhan
Light and Color Management Consultant
-----Original Message-----
From: edmund ronald via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>
Reply-To: edmund ronald <edmundronald@gmail.com>
Date: 3 November 2021 Wednesday 13:14
To: Nick Dunmur <info@nickdunmur.com>
Cc: Colorsync List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>
Subject: Re: just testing, this list seems deceased?
when i was involved with the ICC, they seemed focused on their historical
origins of print endproduct and screen as preview.
I think the action in color management may have moved to the various moving
picture technical committees, the cinema guys are very serious about using
calibrated screens for grading and ensuring viewers get the best experience
in theaters, and there's a whole community of "home theater" people who
calibrate their super large TVs and projectors with high end
spetroradiometers.
Edmund
On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 10:39 AM Nick Dunmur via colorsync-users <
colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
> On Wed Nov 03 2021 09:03:02, edmund ronald via colorsync-users arranged
> some pixels to say…
>
> > Strange how the traffic dwindled away.
>
>
> I think everyone’s still here (hello to all, and Neil for poking the stick
> in :-) !)… perhaps colour management issues are less of a ’thing’ than they
> used to be? I’m still using the tools and workflows I have been for some
> time, but make a lot less work for print these days (90% of commissioned
> work is screen-use only, apart from personal work) and people seem
> generally happy viewing content on high-contrast, over-saturated screens.
> It’s a bit like the whole social media thing - we’re (collectively, I mean,
> not here, of course) losing (or have already lost) the ability to
> appreciate nuance and subtlety across a range of experiences.
>
> kind regards
>
> Nick
> __
>
> dUNMUR | member of the Association of Photographers
>
> http://www.nickdunmur.com <http://www.nickdunmur.com/>
> http://www.the-aop.org <http://www.the-aop.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/edmundronald%40gmail...
>
> This email sent to edmundronald@gmail.com
>
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Maybe it’s because the AppleCMM/ColorSync needs to fix how it handles (or rather breaks) Black Point Compensation with xrite v4 iccs . . . Pun aside, I think people are migrating away from ink-on-paper and into screens. This is an old-school forum right here so the momentum has gone elsewhere . . -Walker
On Nov 3, 2021, at 4:59 AM, Jon Meyer via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
How many remember the halcyon days of big color guy parties, such as the Gretag NDA intro of the i1 in Orlando?
Or have those old, ugly ( Coloratti orangish) Jackets? I have mine, it still hasn’t been worn since provided for obvious color reasons <g>. Andrew Sent from my iPad
haha, this one made me laugh…. can’t believe you still have the jacket! regards to all the remaining color geeks out there Mario
Am 03.11.2021 um 15:25 schrieb Andrew Rodney via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>:
On Nov 3, 2021, at 4:59 AM, Jon Meyer via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
How many remember the halcyon days of big color guy parties, such as the Gretag NDA intro of the i1 in Orlando?
Or have those old, ugly ( Coloratti orangish) Jackets? I have mine, it still hasn’t been worn since provided for obvious color reasons <g>.
Andrew Sent from my iPad
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How many remember the halcyon days of big color guy parties, such as the Gretag NDA intro of the i1 in Orlando?
Yes, and the i3forum in Laguna Beach and the ACN network of ColorSync Consultants… “ColorSync” really isn’t a relevant term anymore is it? It’s a relic of a bygone era.
It would be interesting to find how many of that gang stayed in the biz through Covid.
Still in the biz and doing more interesting projects than ever. COVID was the wrench in the machine I needed. Putting a stop to being on the road 5+ days a week was amazing and allowed me to think more about what I’d really like to focus my time on. I’ve never been very interested in the G7 offset press calibration side of things. I’ve always been more focused on large format printing processes that picky art market clients use (solvent, latex, UV and dyesub), the artwork capture side of things, and techniques to get perfect reproductions. While getting the most out of aqueous inkjet is long put to bed, people still struggle with solvent and dyesub in particular and the RIPs haven’t raised the bar to help these users, sadly. It’s the capture side of things that's really so exciting and has seen so much improvement in recent years. 4 point lighting systems with exquisite polarization, camera profiling, workflow tweaking and colorimetric ∆E reports is all really exciting to master. This along with today’s 100/400 megapixel cameras allows us to document work quickly at insane detail. Today’s cloud based databases make managing collections a lovely experience and combining gigapixel viewing within them is still just starting to come to market. Adobe has leapfrogged Capture One with a few key technologies. It’s an exciting area where there’s a lot happening… And there’s a lot of imaging workflows that are being moved to the cloud. I’m seeing my larger clients intake customer files online, process images in the cloud (including color management) and run through the appropriate printer RIPs often with CM turned off. The cloud is the smart big brain and the RIPs are dumb passthrough workstations. So that’s another exciting area seeing a lot of growth right now. On a personal level, I’m fairly excited at how much better the i1Pro3 is from the 1Pro2 and how easy it is to take M3 measurements with the i1Pro3plus. These tools are fast and affordable and the end results speak for themselves. And Apple Silicon! ColorSync is gonna rock on that M1Max 16” laptop next week I'm sure… Getting the Quadra 660av was the last time I was as excited about getting a new machine.
Conjecture and chatter are that we are down to perhaps 10%.
Thank god for that ;-p I think the argumentative big egos and chest beating have driven people away. I do so miss those early days of inquisitive discussions with open sharing. Tip of the hat to all of you - you know who you are. Scott Martin www.on-sight.com Imaging Science for Art
perhaps colour management issues are less of a ’thing’ than they used to be?
Well, check what's going with sRGB :) Select XYZ white points of the matrices (normalized to Y=1): Bruce Lindbloom: [0.96422 1. 0.82521] Argyll: [0.96421 1. 0.82491] HP 1998: [0.96431893 1. 0.82512475] color.org: [0.96420002 1. 0.82490009] This confuses a lot of folks. -- Best regards, Iliah Borg LibRaw, LLC www.libraw.org www.rawdigger.com www.fastrawviewer.com
participants (13)
-
Andrew Rodney
-
Carlo Lavatori
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edmund ronald
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Iliah Borg
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Jon Meyer
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Jonathan Taylor
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Mario Offermann
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Neil Barstow
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Nick Dunmur
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ralph wyatt
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Refik Telhan
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Scott Martin
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Walker Blackwell